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With Ameila's clue.. writer or journalist specialising in travel.. possibly foreign affairs, like a foreign correspondent. With mars, war zones?? Or adventure travel.

If Estebon is right about the music career, he's involved with protest music.. his songs have a message. (mars/mercury). NN on 5th, Estebon bagged it! : )

He could even be a campaigner for the environment.. mars disposits moon in 8th with scoprio sun for digging deeply.

With SN in 11th cusp in gemini, I think he has a knack for dealing with groups, mercury on 3rd.. he can communicate with groups easily. Good at getting information to lots of people. He has a knack for the politics of groups and can stay "professionally glib". Good at small talk.

Appearance.. leo rises, so reddish tint to the hair, either lots of it or receding at the front hairline. Hair grows low at the back.. typical signature for a mullet! Stubble. High round forhead. Ruddy complexion. With jupiter.. portly? Large frame, looks better on a man. Open and honest nature, affectionate. Popular. Indiana Jones look a like? O, that's Harrison Ford. Nice : )

Relationships.. saturn L7, married late, maybe an age gap. Moon in aries.. not a long courtship! Proposed relatively quickly. Saturn in scorpio, she's intense.. passionate in private, formal in public? Moon in 8th.. she has more money than him, or did at the start anyway. And she continues to benefit him financially. He may have inherited money from his mother, if appropriate ie mother deceased! Taurus on MC, makes me think he did marry and it's a long lasting relationship.

Eminence.. actually I think his writing/communication/diseminating information in some way, gives him quite a wide area of eminence or influence. With jup in leo rising, he's a really likeable person and NN in gemini giving easy social skills so that makes it easier to influence people as they like him any way and they remember him. Sun in scorpio, he'll know lots of secrets!


Gosh, this a very fixed chart, fixed angles, only moon and mars in cardinal, all other planets fixed, NN/SN and POF mutable.. so where is the air? ah SN. Does he talk a lot? There must be some sort of compensation, very intellectual maybe? Hence the writing, I guess?

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amelia wrote:Great replies so far. I'll give a little feedback but not too much at this stage to allow for other contributors. By the way forgot to include physical description. The difference there should be easy!
I think the major difference between these charts is that Gates has the chart luminary, the Moon, as ruler of the Ascendant, elevated and conjunct the MC while being received by its ruler.
The Ascendant ruler of the mystery chart, is cadent, peregrine and below the earth
Good point- it certainly explains the difference between the charts. Though obviously by itself it isn't enough to make Gates who he is, compared to rest of world, as it is a once a month event.
Relationships/marriage
His wife/partner seem to be either saturnian or jupiterian.
Need more clarification. I would have said another planet primarily, but of course that is just my perspective. Is he conventional in his choice of women? Did he marry young? are his relationships stable?
Children
I would say he will have an average number, but will not have many.
Truish so far- though being a man he still has time for more :-).....
Career
I believe his vocation is connected to the arts, to harmony, to beauty, etc. As Venus is conj. Saturn, I don?t believe he is in a very "venusian" profession, but probably some aspect of it will show, together with a saturnian color.
Not really Venusian maybe that is his true vocation but not his career. You should have gone for this description for the relationships - it made me laugh
Sphere of influence ( i.e in Bill Gates case global)
I believe his eminence is just average.
Well obviously he's not famous, but i sort of meant something else
both charts have L10 in detriment in 4th. ..So is sphere of influence not a 10th house issue? Thanks.

Gates moon in 10th.. is that the "global" indicator? Twin 10th's empty...
It is and it isn't. I would say neither of them are driven by status itself, but their careers are important in contributing to their spheres of influence
...
I can see activities related to "communication" for the twin chart also.

Mars and mercury straddling 3rd cusp and sun there also.. he certainly has a message to communicate! L3 and L10 same planet, this is how he makes his living. L10 in L4, may work from home. L9 on 3rd cusp.. he could be a preacher!

Altogether I would guess that he works from home in an industry connected to creativity and communication.. copywriter, art director. With such an angular jupiter, he could even be teacher? An art teacher?

Could he be an evangelical type of priest with such a jupiter and a gift for oration?
.
Oh you are so close with this. You are loking at eactly the right astrological symbolism. But not from home at all really. And not a priest or teacher. L9 on 3rd - yes, so (clue) what does L9 stand for in everyday charts?


Without giving too much away, you are allowed to look for similarities as well as differences in all areas

i didn't realize we had more clues!
but I also realized that I don't quite understand our goal here;
are we supposed to guess who the mystery person is based on their material and astrological differences with bill gates?
or are we delineating these two charts separately and comparing their differences?
Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA
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www.organic-astrology.com

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Re relationships.. I'd like to add venus conj saturn(L7) in 4th..yes conventional relationship, with the wife staying at home. Possibly, she's quite controlling in some way. The great woman behind the great man.. she's his rock.

Both charts have POF in the 8th. Beneficial investments of some sort? Gates disposited by saturn in 5th.. structured gambling? The stock market.
Twin.. by jup in asc.. more risky and instiagated by himself.. hence Yazuru's point that he a gambler, or spend thrift. Not quite sure how I read that.
It's almost like selling yourself for medical research.. and not getting the drugs with side effects. Is he into extreme sports or other physically risky activities?

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didn't realize we had more clues!
but I also realized that I don't quite understand our goal here;
are we supposed to guess who the mystery person is based on their material and astrological differences with bill gates?
or are we delineating these two charts separately and comparing their differences?
Not really clues - just indications of where to focus attention.

I think you understood the goal in your initial post; to describe what makes Mr Mystery twin different based on the differences between the chart.

My point was only that most of the houses aside, there are a lot of similarities in the charts and to expect at least some similar themes between the two.

There should be no need to delineate Gates' chart per se as it has been done many times elsewhere and his biography is available. But for those who want to delve deeper into it there is no prohibition.

But it is not a test either - rather an exploration. What can we deduce about time twins from what we find in the astrology of this example?

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PallasAthene.

You have said a couple of things that are spot on. But I am not saying which yet to let others explore a bit more.

I'm sure he would be flattered to think you have him down as nice and popular ;-)

Actually, I used to live with him once (in the flat share sense not the romantic one), and was quite worried after I first looked at his chart because I thought it was quite dramatic and wondered whether I'd be safe . Only months later did I discover that Gates was a "twin"


Estebon

Re the Music. I had forgotten till you mentioned it. I believe he was very interested when young and as a result had ( maybe still has) a lovely vintage guitar. He's just not made a career out of it. Maybe it was his true calling! But how many of us get to do a Bill Gates and do exactly what we want to vocationally?
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Time for some answers. I'm not starting a separate thread as there is no identity to guess.

As far as possible I will compare the facts about the two and suggest astrological reasonings - but alternative or extended explanations are welcome. I'm going to use the 21.15 Chart for Gates

Appearance
Bill gates is stated to be 5ft 10, and of normal build ( although from pictures he seems to be slimmer now and when he was young than during his microsoft exec years). He has a roundish face. His hair is fairish with a possible hint of redness.

Mystery twin ( MT hereafter) is 2-3 incles taller, and very slim/lean with a lean face. Both have blue eyes. MT doesn?t wear glasses ( though I can?t recall if he has contact lenses). Quite intense eyes. Although Gates is fairer, MT is not particularly dark.

I take these differences to be generally indicative of their Ascendant. With Gates represented by his Cancer ascendant and perhaps the Moon in Aries, whereas MT is much more described by the Leo Ascendant with Jupiter rising - though there is not hint at all of any portliness due to Jupiter just height. I imagine that the Saturn square also contributes to the leaness, though why that means less weight rather than less height I am not sure. The Sun as Asc ruler also in Scorpio probably contributes to the intensity of the eyes etc.

Background
Gates family was upper middle class; his father was a prominent lawyer. MT?s family were probably more normal middle class, with a relatively confortable upbringing. Gates has 2 sisters. MT has one.

I am struggling to identify where I would find childhood conditions in the chart

Gates has 2 sisters. MT has one.
This should come from 3rd house but on that I woudl expect MT to have more siblings.

Health
As far as I am aware neither have had any significant health issues.

I presume the lack of aspects in MT'c chart from the 6th house ruler Saturn to Sun moon Mars and Mercury help this.

In Gates' chart the 6th hosue ruler is Jupiter and again we find no close aspects to the personal planets other than Venus. Nevertheless with Jupiter on the Asc we could expect 6th house issues to be more prominent.

Progession and vocation
Many of you had a look at this area for MT using the 10th house ruler.
The problem is that we don't all get to fulfil our vocations- so the 10th house is only part of the picture. It is less easy to say what the rest of teh picture is though. Sun? Ascendant ruler?

Obviously Gates was into software writing :lol:
Is this in his 10th? Well Jupiter rules the 10th and is in the 3rd of communications ( he could literally be big in communications?) but I think the Moon is at least as important here - being his chart ruler and in 10th house.

The Moon is in Mars ruled Aries and Mars is very important for mathematical logic (not to be confused with arithmetical manipulation which is the domain of Mercury) and is here in conjunction with Mercury anyway.

Further we should also consider that he now has a new vocation - as a philanthropist. This is much more descriptive of Jupiter in Pisces I woudl think.

What about MT?
Estebon's guess of Music and other similar thoughts based on the Taurus MC were totally logical. I don't know why it is not that simple - maybe the presence of Saturn in conjunction with the MC ruler and based opposite the MC restricted the opportunities to follow the true vocation and meant that another part of the chart had to be accessed by the native.

PallasAthene did get it right after I hinted at a different approach with
writer or journalist specialising in travel.. possibly foreign affairs, like a foreign correspondent. With mars, war zones?? Or adventure travel.
Not adventure travel, but he has definitely been a journalist /foreign correspondent.
So I am presuming that in the absence of the ability to embrace Venus, the chart ruler or Sun ( in this case they are the same) came into play. (there are other possibilities re directions at the point of starting career etc). So with the Sun in 3rd MT is a journalist. Whilst he isn't necessarily a war corespondent - he has worked on some war related assignments.

Enough of the differences though. Interestingly most of MT's career has been spent with a global communications company with also has a significant technology division. So there is actually quite an overlap in the nature of their work.
It is even amusing that in Gates last few years as CEO of Microsoft he focussed on security and MT is currently a security correspondent.
( I guess that would be the Scorpio influence ;-))

Sphere of influence
I asked if anyone could compare these, but it was hard to explain what I meant without giving away the information. I meant is this a person confined to their local neighbourhood or is their reach broader. We can now see that as an international jouranlist it may be wide. In fact he has lived in Asia, Middle east and more than one country in Africa. Many of the countries in fact that Gates foundations now seek to help. And in fact MT's presence there has been physical rather than financial.

So in terms of where they have had influence they are similar. What, of course, is missing with MT is the level of eminence that Gates has.....

Wealth

....And the money! MT is a typical comfortable professional but not at all 'wealthy' by western standards. Indeed I rented a room from him in order that he could earn a little extra cash for various reasons. If we go with the 2nd house for this , we see Mercury conjoining Mars and opposing the Moon - money comes and goes perhaps? Enough to expplain his normal situation. Gates, on the other hand, has the Sun in the 5th ruling his 2nd, and thus the influence of Jupiter in Leo to benefit from. Still, so do many people - we should be looking to something more for the fabulous wealth. I can't see this- must be a part, or house cusp aspect that I can't see.

relationships and children
Although their Ascendants, and thus the sign of 7th house differ the 7th house ruler in both case is Saturn. Which is obviously in both cases in conjucntion with Venus.

Gates got married quite late 1994 (so he was 38).
He then conventionally had three children :
? Daughter Born in 1996.
? Son Born in 1999.
? Daughter Born in 2002

MT's situation is more complicated ( maybe the subtle difference of Aquarius rather than Capricorn). The suggestion that he would have conventional relationship history is not bourne out.

He married even later. ( a tick for Pallas for getting this)
But....
He and his ex girlfriend had a daughter late 1998
They married Dec 2001, ( mainly for convenience of daughter I think)
But he met his future wife soon after and they had a son in 2007
and he married 2nd wife in June 2008 and a further son was born in
Oct 2009. Both his wives are African. The second is much (20 years) younger - which presumably is one of the options for Saturn and Venus together. She's now a stay at home wife but wasn't at first -she's strong but not controlling as someone suggested ( at least I don't see that!!). She's also very pretty/striking.

But comparing his situation with Gates doesn't really explain why Gates is married to someone nearer his own age....Still compared to the rest of the population there is are some similar themes.

Hope that gives enough feedback on MT . If not ask, though I don't know everything and wouldn't post anything too personal about him.