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Sexual Orientation in the Horoscope?
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dr. farr



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps differing from our traditionalists in this matter, I personally interpret ALL "masculine" and "feminine" indications (eg of signs, planets, etc) in Yang and Yin terms (that is, in the extended meanings of those cosmological terms), and never as meaning "man" (male sex) or "woman" (female sex).
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margherita



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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:


Is this of interest - the research that Kim Farnell did on this subject?
Astrology, Sex and Great Lovers - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/love.html
I seem to remember Kim saying that she found no reliable indicators of homosexuality and considered it, like gender itself, to be something that the horoscope is neutral about. However, although it is hard for me to give concrete examples,


Last year in my blog I gave a look to GIACOMO (not Giovanni ) Casanova

http://heavenastrolabe.net/about-star-crossed-love/

this is evidently a case of excess. Too many women (if there is this idea for a man, I don't know)

Sun, Venus and Mars in a masculine quadrant, the third. Moon in the fourth, feminine.

Moon and Sun connected by a trine (the man will marry) in masculine signs.

Mars is invisible in Pisces, so it gives some weakness.
Venus visible and matutine (oriental to the Sun) gives a very strong masculine appetite.
Venus and Mars are with the Aquarius water, one of the listed horrida sidera.

And because Venus is with Mars beheld by Saturn:

Lastly, if Saturn be in familiarity with them, he will likewise co-operate, by tending to produce greater impurity and obscenity, and greater evil altogether;


and Mercury the public scandal:

and Mercury to greater mobility, diversity, activity, and notoriety of the passions.


obviously here it is missing all the judgement about temperament and quality of the soul and the rest, but here it's quite easy to apply Ptolemy text in my opinion,

margherita
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3D



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Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark

In my astrological practice, I came across a combination or midpoint tree with Venus/Uranus/Neptune in charts of male homosexuals very often. Many also have/had a combination of Venus/Neptune plus another inner planet or the sun.

Just a few examples out of 8 charts checked:

Klaus Wovereit, Mayor of Berlin – VE(MA) = UR/NE
Elton John - UR(MA) = VE/NE
George Michael – UR = VE/NE
Leonardo da Vinci – VE = UR/NE

If Venus represents tastes or love life, and Uranus/Neptune, strange things, the unknown, to pass boundaries, then this makes sense.

René
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In my astrological practice, I came across a combination or midpoint tree with Venus/Uranus/Neptune in charts of male homosexuals very often. Many also have/had a combination of Venus/Neptune plus another inner planet or the sun.

Just a few examples out of 8 charts checked:

Klaus Wovereit, Mayor of Berlin – VE(MA) = UR/NE
Elton John - UR(MA) = VE/NE
George Michael – UR = VE/NE
Leonardo da Vinci – VE = UR/NE

If Venus represents tastes or love life, and Uranus/Neptune, strange things, the unknown, to pass boundaries, then this makes sense.

René


Hello Rene,

Sorry for not replying to your post earlier. I dont tend to use midpoints so this is not something I would normally come across. I was wondering how many charts you have based your conclusion on excluding the ones cited above? Its obviously not a large sample.

Equally, have you noted any trends in charts for Lesbians?

Mark
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3D



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Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was wondering how many charts you have based your conclusion on excluding the ones cited above? Its obviously not a large sample.


Hi Marc

A friend of mine had a huge male dog, a great Dane; it was not interested in females and had other strange habits. My friend said: “I think my dog is gay” so I did the chart (he had the birth time) and found the combination of Venus/Uranus/Neptune, looked it up in Ebertin’s cooking book and the delineation fit.

On several other occasions, I found this combination in my practise or in gay (male, I didn’t check females) celebrity charts.
When I did a more statistical search, the phenomenon, ‘oh yes that fits’, disappeared. Confused This disappearance of the aha-effect after a couple of meaningful delineations has happened to me so often and with other planetary combinations, techniques etc. that I gave up statistical searches. There must be a rule behind that disappearance. I think it’s the same as with I Ging:

It is not I who seek the young fool;
The young fool seeks me.
At the first oracle I inform him.
If he asks two or three times, it is importunity.
If he importunes, I give him no information.


Actually this happened to me after I had done the I Ging twice with the same result, THE MOUNTAIN. I was in a special state of mind and was absolutely sure that THE MOUNTAIN had to come again the third time but THE FOOL came.

Perhaps this is rather a subject for Philosophy and Science.Smile

René
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Rene,

Oh the old Rabbit down the hole experience..eh? Ah well it keeps us on our toes I suppose. I have always doubted that astrology will just slot neatly into reductionist methodology such as statistical analysis. However, lots of excellent astrologers would take issue with that view.

Quote:
Actually this happened to me after I had done the I Ging twice with the same result, THE MOUNTAIN. I was in a special state of mind and was absolutely sure that THE MOUNTAIN had to come again the third time but THE FOOL came.


Getting Hexagram 4 after asking the same question is a common experience. The I Ching describes itself as 'an exceptional recourse' and should not be repeatedly consulted on the same issue. Its just like people trying to cast horary after horary to get the answer they want. I tend to regard the I Ching like a wise friend. Wouldn't your friend consider it rude to keep asking him/her the same question over and over?

Also from Hexagram 4 of the I Ching:

Quote:
if mistrustful or unintelligent questioning is kept up, it serves only to annoy the teacher. He does well to ignore it in silence, just as the oracle gives one answer only and refuses to be tempted by questions implying doubt.


Mark
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Tanit
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it strange that there is always a focus on homosexuality, but what about asexuality, otherwise known as a lack of sexuality? People like Jane Austen, Emily Dickinson, Hans Christian Anderson? I would consider myself to be asexual, since I have a very low sex drive, and my only long-term relationship was never sexual. I don't usually admit this, but for the sake of astrology, I will say I am 30 and have actually truly never been sexual, but I am an otherwise healthy, conventionally attractive female. It's out of choice basically. I have no real desire for sex, especially in the physical world. I am curious if this might be easier to see than homosexuality?

For myself, I cannot really relate it to Mars - my Mars is very strong (in Aries in the 10th - also in a day chart, so more fiery), but my Venus is very weak (conjunct Mars in Aries in the 10th, opposite Pluto). The astrologers that have looked at my chart have no idea - they go the other route (over-sexed, etc.). Confused
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aglaya



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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Tanit!

I actually find the topic that you're suggesting very interesting and have often tried to find more examples and especially aphorisms that would shed some better light onto my confusion since, just like you and, apparently, the astrologers whom you have asked for the advice, i find it to be a very blurry area and often I believe that it is usually completely neglected .

I couldn't agree more with this:
Quote:
I am curious if this might be easier to see than homosexuality?


It should.
And I believe that deb has actually already mentioned what I think is the main reason for this.

Quote:
Is this of interest - the research that Kim Farnell did on this subject?
Astrology, Sex and Great Lovers - http://www.skyscript.co.uk/love.html
I seem to remember Kim saying that she found no reliable indicators of homosexuality and considered it, like gender itself, to be something that the horoscope is neutral about. However, although it is hard for me to give concrete examples, I have personally noticed signatures of unconventiality in the natal charts I have worked with of older people - but maybe because they had a harder time being socially open than the modern genration (?)



I have about 6-7 (mostly male) friends who are homosexuals and at least three of them are actually very close friends. i'm saying this because I'm very familiar with their love life and my impression is exactly the same- there are no strong signs of deviated sexual behaviour in their charts what so ever.
My best friend has known that he was gay since he was 12 . He did not wear dresses as a kid Smile, he did not play with girls...the first time he realised that there was something "odd" going on was when his libido woke up. Around the time when most kids start noticing the opposite sex, he started noticing the same sex and that was all.

BUT, he was never really traumatized by that fact (which is a bit strange for a 15yo) , he told his parents about it when he was 17 and, though his father was a man of almost 70 at the time, the both accepted it very easily. He has never lost a single friend because he is a gay (quite the contrary), no significant inconveniences and, by all means, no unnatural sexual behaviour.
He was 21 when he lost his virginity. Not only did everything go smoothly for him, but he'd often find himself in hilarious situations constructed by people who were trying to help and express their friendly attitude. his mother used to be a huge "problem" . Laughing When he admitted that he didn't like girl ks, she said "OK" and the very next morning she told him that she had made him his first urologist appointment. She said:"I don't mind you being gay, but as long as you're one, you'll be a healthy gay!". Smile)) And from then on, she insisted that he should see his doctor at least twice a year. And he was too embarrassed to tell her that he didn't even have sex at the time. Smile

Soon after he became student, he was elected for the chief coordinator of the local Human Rights Group and is currently editing the newsletter of another teenage pregnancy advisory group. he is actually very ardent in spreading the knowledge about the importance of healthy sexual life among young people.
He has had only two long-term, serious relationships so far and very few flings- he is the most monogamous person that i know.
Also, he is very "masculine" and "regular" boy. The problem is that he is very goodlooking too and I my female friends usually have very hard time accepting the fact that he is a gay. Smile

The story isn't much different in other cases either but, the bottom line is- most of them have no indications of stressful activities or events related to their love or sexual life (apart from, of course, occasionally broken hearts! Very Happy )

On the other hand, his sister has got some very stressful aspects in her chart and, though she is only 38, she has been divorced twice, her first husband threatened to kidnap their kids and she had to hide her relationship with him for 4 years (they even emigrated when they were 24) because he comes from a very strict Muslim family whilst she is a Christian. Her 2nd husband was an important figure in our town and his extramarital affairs were publicly exposed some 3 years ago. She moved had to temporarily move abroad for the second time in her life because she couldn't handle the pressure.
She, of course, is straight. But her private life is very messy.

Now, as for asexuality- there are usually two possible reasons for it- a complete lack of sexual interest or a deliberate choice of the Native to completely exclude sexual activities from his/her life (monks for instance but, on occasions, scientists too- Nikola Tesla allegedly said that sexual life is a waste of time Very Happy ).
But, at this point, I have to ask you if you'd feel comfortable if we opened another thread for this topic?
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
I find it strange that there is always a focus on homosexuality, but what about asexuality, otherwise known as a lack of sexuality? People like Jane Austen, Emily Dickinson, Hans Christian Anderson? I would consider myself to be asexual, since I have a very low sex drive, and my only long-term relationship was never sexual. I don't usually admit this, but for the sake of astrology, I will say I am 30 and have actually truly never been sexual, but I am an otherwise healthy, conventionally attractive female. It's out of choice basically. I have no real desire for sex, especially in the physical world. I am curious if this might be easier to see than homosexuality?

For myself, I cannot really relate it to Mars - my Mars is very strong (in Aries in the 10th - also in a day chart, so more fiery), but my Venus is very weak (conjunct Mars in Aries in the 10th, opposite Pluto). The astrologers that have looked at my chart have no idea - they go the other route (over-sexed, etc.). Confused


A few points:
-Your Venus could be exalted sidereally-tends to give "Exalted love"
-There are a couple of famous mystics who have taken renunciation(sanyasa)-they too have Venus in Tropical Aries(sidereal pisces).

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramakrishna
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kriyananda%2C_Swami

Arthur Schopenhauer was heavily influenced by "Upanishads"
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Schopenhauer%2C_Arthur

http://www.epistemelinks.com/Main/TextName.aspx?PhilCode=Scho

If you are brave enough -read his "Studies in pessimism" !!

PD
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Tanit
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Now, as for asexuality- there are usually two possible reasons for it- a complete lack of sexual interest or a deliberate choice of the Native to completely exclude sexual activities from his/her life (monks for instance but, on occasions, scientists too- Nikola Tesla allegedly said that sexual life is a waste of time ).
But, at this point, I have to ask you if you'd feel comfortable if we opened another thread for this topic?


One could be straight, bisexual, homosexual, or asexual. These are all sexual orientations. I hope this does not deviate from the opening post. To the opening poster - if it does, please let me know.

I had read Deb's article last yr, thanks for reminding me. The article briefly mentions "impotence," but there is a focus on sexual prowess. I think this quote here from Ptolemy is what most astrologers assume when they read my chart in particular (Cardan has a similar aphorism):

Quote:
in the case of females... should Venus be conjoined or configurated with Mars alone, she will render women licentious and lustful.


Besides being closely joined with Mars in Aries, above the horizon in a day chart, Venus is also oriental, by the way.

Quote:
Aspects from Jupiter can indicate feminine reluctance whilst Saturn in the 7th is a sign of weakness - perhaps impotence.


To me, I think my ASC/DSC rulers Moon-Saturn square is the main thing that signifies my choices. Saturn is not in the 7th, but rules the 7th, in Virgo in the 3rd (STATIONARY). I also have Uranus in the 5th house.

I have two out of three elder sisters who are also asexual (Saturn in the 3rd = siblings?), and one of them has Saturn in detriment in the 7th.

Jane Austen had Virgo rising, but I honestly have a hard time seeing "virgin" in hers or a lot of asexual people's charts, including my own. You might think sexually "weird," but it would be hard to pinpoint.

Quote:
Your Venus could be exalted sidereally-tends to give "Exalted love"

No, Venus/Mars is in early Aries in sidereal, vs. late Aries in tropical. Venus in Pisces seem to have a pretty easy time in love generally. I have a coldness that doesn't make sense with all of the fire, and would have to be explained by Moon-Saturn (and maybe the Venus-Pluto opp).

Anyway, sorry to bring my chart into it, but I just know from experience that astrologers always assume that I am sexually promiscuous and conquer every men I want, or something. It is something that is more complex than just my Mars/Venus, to be sure, so I hope that others will be cautious before making such assumptions. I don't really have trouble attracting men, but it is also generally unwanted. I am open-minded that I might meet someone who changes this (I might be sexually connected), but it never really happens, and I kind of doubt at this point that it will.

Marilyn Monroe was another Venus in Aries, and her sexuality was pretty strong outwardly (how people saw her), but it also seems that her own sexual fulfillment might have been lacking.
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margherita



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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Tanit, this is my very quick look

Tanit wrote:

Jane Austen had Virgo rising


Jane Austen has the Moon with Saturn and Sun and Moon are not configured.

It looks like a perfect example.

http://bit.ly/ck5PV7

Another example, Emily Bronte

http://bit.ly/9lCNra

Like you she has Venus with Mars, both opposite to Saturn; Sun and Moon are not configured.

In Cieloeterra they compiled a research about excess and chastity, and they wrote that between the chaste many of them had the same configurations of the excess- Venus, Mars and Saturn in aspect- take from whatever author you prefer the quote, it is copied and pasted from author to author.

In support to this they mention Freud and his theory of sex. If Freud was right I don't know, they just took several birth charts of caste people and followed Ptolemy and hellenistic astrologers' indications.

margherita
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Tanit
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jane Austen has the Moon with Saturn


Thanks for your input, Margherita! Oh, yes, I had forgotten that she had the Moon/Saturn conjunction. Austen also has an ASC/DSC ruler opposition, with the ASC ruler rejecting the DSC ruler, in a sign of its detriment (Mercury especially rejects Jupiter there).

Quote:
Sun and Moon are not configured.

My Moon/Sun are in aversion too. I see in your blog you note this here:

Quote:
For this reason in a geniture we should consider if the Moon beholds the Sun because if so the native will marry, but if they are inconjunct or the Moon is in her synod with the Sun, especially if she is witnessed by Saturn – in this case she provides the native with a stone heart- the gentle author of this blog sadly knows this quite well.


I guess this answers a lot... Like me, my asexual sisters also have Moon/Sun in aversion and Moon in aspect with Saturn. One has a Moon-Saturn square (with Saturn in the 7th in detriment), like me, the other a trine (with Saturn in the 1st in detriment). They are less open-minded than I am though, and I think the angular detrimented Saturn might have something to do with it.
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aglaya



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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
:

Quote:
in the case of females... should Venus be conjoined or configurated with Mars alone, she will render women licentious and lustful.


Marilyn Monroe was another Venus in Aries, and her sexuality was pretty strong outwardly (how people saw her), but it also seems that her own sexual fulfillment might have been lacking.


I have always found this "rule" (Venus/Mars conjunction = great sexual life) to be just very questionable and almost useless if excluded from the rest of the chart and especially when the dignities are not examined. There is one thing that i did notice, though- when this conjunction meets another planet (and especially when the 10th is involved in some way) with a stressful aspect, the odds of public humiliation caused by secret sexual affairs, habits or behaviour are very likely. But this conjunction alone can hardly determine the quality of someone's sexual orientation. The more charts with this con junction I look, the more I'm sure that it alone is not the ultimate sign of sexual attraction, at least not by default. Detriments are probably playing one of the biggest roles in these, sometimes, paradoxical situations.

Also, i often find it very hard to determine whether an aspect 8or the lack of it) will manifest on the inner or outer level. Having said that- I also have Saturn (though much stronger) in Virgo and it rules my 5th. saturn is the only planet that my venus touches with an aspect (sextile) but it manifests mainly through my attitude- i don't need many relationships, I usually take a lot of time to make sure that the person is worth committing too and I don't enjoy casual one-night stands. But that is not to say that i don't enjoy sex in my relationships.
In charts of some other people, I sometimes find strong influence of Saturn onto the 5th and they complain that no one ever approaches them. I have had many "offers" ever since I was a teenager only I turn down about 99,9% of people who approach me.
Some complain that they don't have sex as much as they would like to, others say that they don't like sex as much as their partners would like them to. Smile
So, I simply try to compare separate testimonies that are not always described by the same planet and I usually start from the Ascendant- its ruler is most likely to add that final testimony and help us to determine whether the person is actualy interested (in anything) in the first place. Because, for what it's worth, I've seen people jumping into 3 marriages with Saturn inside their 7th.


Quote:
Like you she has Venus with Mars, both opposite to Saturn; Sun and Moon are not configured.


Again, I believe that we should be careful when determining the strength of this placements outside of the rest of the picture.
Most texts suggest that many men will be attracted to the Native if her Venus is in a benevolent aspect with Mars. My Venus and Mars are separated by only 20 degrees and form no major or minor aspect. But, Mars sextiles my Ascendant ruler and I have found it to work the same (not that the quantity of offers determines the quality of love life! Laughing ).
Similarly- my Moon and Sun and inconjunct. I don't know if I can convince you that I am not stone-hearted Smile but, this placement usually describes the the relationship of the Native's parents. The luminaries that do not see each other have not prevented my parents from being blindly attached to each other (and I'm talking about a very drastic case).
I am very attached to people I love too. But, I have L1/L7 partile conjunction too.
Saturn rules my 5th and it is inside Virgo (1st). venus forms only a sextile with saturn. I have Virgo ascendant. My Moon and Sun are inconjunct and my Mars and my venus cannot see each other either. But, I find sexual part of a relationship to be just as important as the emotional part and I don't think that there is anything superficial about sexual affection and closeness- quite the opposite, I believe that the sexual part of the relationship can make very strong bonds between two people even on spiritual level. (Which is probably why I don't find casual sexual affairs as attractive as many people do or at least expect them to include at least that thin yet powerful and profound layer of belonging and closeness. And that usually isn't possible in one-night stands! Smile )

So, obviously, it's a very slippery ground.
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Tanit
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Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does your Saturn have term dignity, Aglaya? Yeah, mine is just peregrine in Virgo, although it is received in a trine by Mercury. It being stationary (before direct motion) seems important, and it is conjunct the north node, increasing some of its malefic influences. I don't think I am stone-hearted either, and I think Saturn influences are often simplified too much in this way. There is a guardedness, perhaps, or an aloofness/coldness, but I don't think I am dead on the inside. There is more of a detached view of others for me, although I am compassionate, in that I cannot immerse myself into an intimate relationship with another person. I am fine with a platonic connection, but that is all, I don't wish ill will on anyone. I have Cancer rising with Moon in Sag in the 6th conjunct Neptune, and I have heard that Moon/Neptune conjunctions can lead to platonic romantic relationships also.

Quote:
There is one thing that i did notice, though- when this conjunction meets another planet (and especially when the 10th is involved in some way) with a stressful aspect, the odds of public humiliation caused by secret sexual affairs, habits or behaviour are very likely.


It's true what you mentioned about the 10th and public knowledge of relationships (although you can't say it was a sexual affair - just feelings). My only long-term relationship was with a coworker, and he was popular at work and talked about our relationship with others, even my virginity, which was embarrassing to me (I am more private). I fell for another coworker, as Mars seems to force these situations onto Venus at work (I do not seek out relationships), and there was a tug-of-war between us (he and I are astrologically similar in love and he may have been a virgin too). He eventually seemed to tire of it and left the state, then spoke ill of me to old coworkers. He was my superior at work, and my reputation (to myself at least) was tarnished, and that made me feel less inclined to seek relationships also, although I was never comfortable with it to begin with or sure how to deal with it.

Quote:
Because, for what it's worth, I've seen people jumping into 3 marriages with Saturn inside their 7th.


Right, I only meant it in combination with other things, such as the Moon-Saturn square and Moon/Sun aversion. My best friend has Saturn in Virgo in the 7th. But she also has no Moon-Saturn connection, and her ASC ruler Jupiter is in the 7th trine the 7th ruler Mercury. She's 7th house heavy and her ASC ruler in the 7th is true, since marriage is pretty much the most important thing to her.

Quote:
Similarly- my Moon and Sun and inconjunct. I don't know if I can convince you that I am not stone-hearted but, this placement usually describes the the relationship of the Native's parents. The luminaries that do not see each other have not prevented my parents from being blindly attached to each other (and I'm talking about a very drastic case).

Yes, but I also think that this makes sense in relationships though, because your parents are a guide for how you view relationships. If your parents had a bad relationship (as mine did - very bad), it might make you less inclined to view relationships in good light.
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aglaya



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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Tanit!

Apparently, our charts have a lot in common. The other day you said that you had an unaspected Sun inside the 11th just like me, we're both 30 i.e. have Saturn in Virgo and it is conjunct the N.node. Smile


I meant to ask you if your Ascendant was in leo or Cancer yesterday, but I forgot- I'm not really surprised now, oddly enough, most women who's charts I have delineated and who complained that they "couldn't catch up with their partner's libido" Smile or that they found no pleasure in "sexual activities" were cancer Ascendants. And I'm not really surprised- it is commonly accepted that a good malefic is always better than a bad benefic and, though the Moon is neither, if weak or damaged, its general symbolics can easily become almost unrecognisable or simply changed.
What is the shape of your Moon? (That is exactly why I believe that starting with the Ascendant makes most sense! I have Sun/Moon inconjunct and Venus and Mars separated by only 20 degrees but my L1 is in a partile conjunction with the L7- that clearly suggests that I would be very attracted to relationships and feel the urge for both bodily and emotional contacts with men whom I love although some of my long-term relationships have survived very long periods of physical separation very successfully).

Quote:
I don't think I am stone-hearted either, and I think Saturn influences are often simplified too much in this way


True, Saturn can be very good. Smile besides, i've always loved older men. Very Happy

Quote:
There is a guardedness, perhaps, or an aloofness/coldness, but I don't think I am dead on the inside.


With Saturn L5 inside my 1st I can nothing but confirm this.


Quote:
and I have heard that Moon/Neptune conjunctions can lead to platonic romantic relationships also.



True. I've seen it many times- it is not always a very bright picture because much will always depend upon the rest of the relevant indicators but, yes, in a few synastry charts that i have made, a relevant planet of one partner conjunct this this placement in the chart of the other was very descriptive of the "piscean" tone of the relationship.


Quote:
It's true what you mentioned about the 10th and public knowledge of relationships (although you can't say it was a sexual affair - just feelings).


Of course, other influences will determine if we are really talking about a sex-scandal. Smile But, in cases where people were indeed involved in them, this conjunction played a very huge role. The chart of a person that, unfortunately had to experience the most drastic form of a such situation (sex-scandal that crossed many borders and ended up in a every single newspaper and Tv show) included Mars/Venus conjunction smack on Asc squaring a planet on DC. (It wasn't even a "private video"- the woman didn't even know that her ex had been taping their sex for almost a year and then, after they broke up, he sold the tapes to an internet site.)
But, as you have already pointed out- sometimes, the stressful activities will manifest in different ways and will cause havoc on a more intimate plane.



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Does your Saturn have term dignity, Aglaya?


No, mine is peregrine too. But it is very fast and malefics are the strongest planets in my chart- since they're the only two angular planets I have, even with a partile square between them (that adds quite a handful of negative points to the list of their accidental debilities) they're still not only much stronger than the other planets but actually fairly strong generally speaking. Angularity, good houses (1st, 10th), direct motion, swiftness (Saturn is very swift, app. 280% of the average velocity)...it all makes them much stronger than other planets.

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Yes, but I also think that this makes sense in relationships though, because your parents are a guide for how you view relationships. If your parents had a bad relationship (as mine did - very bad), it might make you less inclined to view relationships in good light.


That is very true. I'm pretty sure that when two people are blindly following each other, the odds of doubling mistakes are higher Smile which, in case of my parents , has proved to be true on more than one occasion Very Happy , but you're right when you say that when an individual grows up in a family where the bonds between the parents are so strong and stable, he tends to see it as a standard (same thing in the opposite situations, of course. It a sad but very common thing that women who grew up as daughters of victimised mothers or were themselves victimised by their fathers marry bully husbands and become victims for the second time in their lives.)
Here, i again have to add that, in my chart, the ruler of the 4th (father) went into the 10th (mother)- clearly saying how attached my dad is to my Mom and, well, yes- who the boss is. it's my Mother. Smile
I'm saying this because, now that we're talking about this, I believe that my chart is a good example of how difficult it can sometimes be to wage the (apparently) controversial testimonies.
Sun/Moon inconjunction (a common symptom of bad communication or failed relationship, inability to co-operate etc.) and the L4 inside the 10th and even trining the Moon (strong bonds and attachment) and the latter one wins.
The Moon is by far the weakest planet in the chart but my Mother is well known for her authoritative "skills" (no, she is not strict, she is "just" extremely dominant).
Similarly, Sun and Moon as well as Venus and Mars out of contact (again, a potentially bad sign or even one of the signs of the lack of interest in deep bonding) and a partile L1/L7 conjunction suggesting the opposite and, again, the latter one wins at least on the emotional plane i.e. in terms of my attitude and willingness to commit.
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