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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Moon VOC: a question about separation

 
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:34 pm    Post subject: Moon VOC: a question about separation Reply with quote

Is the Moon considered to be VOC in a horary context when it is still within orb of its last aspect but not yet within orb of its next aspect?

Case in point, earlier today the Moon at 7* Aqua separates from the opposition of Mars Rx by 2*45' and then faces a gap of some 16 degrees before it reaches conjunction with the Sun.

Is this a VOC Moon?

If not, how can it be expected to move the story along when it is not within reach of the next aspect or event?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Tara
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/voc.html

There have been many threads regarding VOC Moons in the forum, so if you look around you'll find what you're looking for...

Moon is already under the Sun's beams anyway (around 17 degree orb, depending on your preferences), which certainly doesn't seem VOC to me, but wouldn't be a nice influence on the question. New Moons tend to show endings especially.

There is always a debate on VOC Moons, and everyone disagrees, so go with what you find works in your own horaries. It would depend a lot on the condition of the Moon (sign, house placement, etc.). Also, I find that if the Moon aspects a planet at the beginning of its next sign change (i.e., at zero degrees), it still tends to function, especially if the planet it aspects is an important significator.

To address your initial question, even though I don't think it applies here:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/moon2.html
Quote:
The Moon is still within orb of its last aspectual contact but not yet within orb of its next aspectual contact.
It is expected that the Moon will remain responsive to the influence of its last planetary contact for as long as the two bodies remain within the limits of the orb. Hence we could argue that the Moon is not truly 'void' in this position. However, Lilly refers to the Moon as 'ad vac [going to nothing]' in two of the three charts he publishes which have the Moon still within orb of its last aspect but out of orb of its next aspect. In one judgement he labours upon the significance of this, clearly describing the Moon as going to be 'void of course' for a little time and interpreting a period of confusion and inactivity that corresponds with the number of degrees that the Moon must travel before it enters into orb of new aspects that perfect within its present sign. So even though the Moon is not yet empty of the influence of its previous aspect, the fact that it cannot presently communicate this influence forward to its next contact, shows that the Moon's 'course' is interrupted: the flow of virtue cannot resume until the Moon can communicate freely between the planets.
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to lilly, and I have found it to work in most of the charts at least those where the current void course of the Moon was the only obvious element of disbalance- it is a sign of some sort of delay, empty walk and, in most of the relationship charts that I've seen so far, the Moon still within the orb of its last separation and going void (but not entirely VOC) it was a strong sign of some past unbroken bonds whilst the time before the Moon enters into its next application more often than not coincided with the time the time before the bonds are broken.
The planet that the Moon separates from will tell a lot about the kind of bonds.

Of course, as Tanit has already pointed out, in this particular case, the planet's next application is to Sun and we can allow a bit wider orb for a luminary but, even if it were another planet, personally, i would not consider this Moon to be "dysfunctional" but rather in a time gap, sort of speaking.
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Skyscript's definition seems to suggest a "time gap" also, or that the person will go through a period of time where nothing much seems to happen.

In the case of the Sun's rays on the Moon though, I think that is another topic entirely! I am a bit obsessed with combustion and wish we'd all discuss that more than VOC Moons, which gets far too much attention. Laughing
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also wonder about an ASC-Moon aspect sometimes leading to a functional Moon, even when Moon might be technically void, especially if the ASC is a sign that receives the Moon well (i.e., its domicile, exaltation, trip)?

Dortheus says something sort of similar in this quote:
Quote:
If you find the Moon void of all the planets, none of them aspects it, and none is in the ascendant or aspecting the ascendant, then this native is void of good in livelihood, possesses pain and hardship in the pursuit of what he needs. - Carmen Astrologicum, 1.12.7
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all. Much appreciated.

You confirm my initial sense of the meaning of the moon in this particular chart. It's odd because the querent has asked if it will be safe for him to go on an overseas trip he is planning with his girlfriend. He can't say why, but he is deeply uneasy about going.

There are no aspects between L9 and L1 (unless you count the inconjunct which is a kind of anti-aspect) and also none between the Moon and L9. Neither is there any aspect between L1 and L7 (a secondary sig when it comes to going somewhere.)

This lack of connection between the querent's sigs and the trip's sigs, plus the fact that L1 is Rx, makes me think he won't go forward with the trip, although I see no danger to him from going, given that there are no aspects between his sig and L9. It just looks like he won't go.

Can anyone confirm that L1 Rx in a question about a trip suggests that the querent won't go?

Also ... there are two double-inconjuncts ("Yods") in this chart, and both involve the inconjunct between L1 and L9. I'm sure this means something, but what?

Tara
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retrograde planets often change their minds about the matter in question, or a ruin of plans could even happen. The only planets that are retro right now are the two malefics, and some say either one in the 1st can damage the question.

We don't normally look at inconjunct aspects, and planets that are in aversion do not "see" one another, which does often lead to the matter not happening when important sigs are in aversion to one another.

Lilly on some travel plans, if you have not thought of his advice:
Of a Voyage by Sea, and Success thereof
Quote:
Look to the 9th house, if it be good and strong, and aspected of good Planets, or good Planets in the said house, especially if the Lord of the ascendant and the 10th be well affected, it is very good: but if thou findest Saturn, Mars or the South Node there, then is the way evill, if the Lord of the 9th be with an evill Planet, it is evill, and he shall not speed well in the way, or get any wealth by that Voyage: Mars in the 9th, :intimates danger by Theeves or Pyrates; Saturn threateneth losse of Goods, or sicknesse; the South Node doth import the same that Mars doth, but most part with cozenage and deceit. The substance of the Journey is from the 10th, because it is the 2nd from the 9th: Fortunes there, expect Wealth; Infortunes,losse: the 9th infortunate, many hardships in the Voyage; Fortunes there, a happy passage. Together with this, see to the Lord of the 8th, or 8th house; for if he or it be strong there is Wealth to be got; Saturn, Mars or South Node in that house, nothing to be had, or not worth labour.
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Tanit.

Just writing up the judgment now and thought of another question I'd like to ask:

Saturn in this chart is in the 6th house, which Lilly says (p. 264) is associated with a "disturbed mind". (This is one of the reasons I'm inclined to say that the querent is suffering from "vain imaginings" rather than having a genuine premonition of danger.)

L1 (Mars) applies to sextile Saturn, so Saturn has something to say about this situation.

Now Saturn is L10, L11 and L12 so my question is: when a planet is Lord of two good houses and one bad house, how do we decide if that planet is a good or a positive influence on the question?

I know being Rx and in the 6th is not suggestive of Saturn being a good influence on things, but:

a) the aspect between L1 and Saturn is a positive one, although between two debilitated and Rx planets;

b) Saturn is exalted; and

c) Saturn does rule two good houses. So what's the final verdict? What's the balance of testimonies on Saturn as an influence in this chart?

Data is: Feb 12 at 9:29 am EST, Toronto, Canada, in case anyone wants to look at the chart.

Tara
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Tanit



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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
a) the aspect between L1 and Saturn is a positive one, although between two debilitated and Rx planets;


Is it? No, no, no. They are in mutual bad reception here and in a sinister sextile aspect. Not a happy aspect at all there. L1 is also peregrine. Does sound like he is having some phobias!
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does sound like he is having some phobias!

My thoughts exactly.

It's interesting that the Moon, L5, separates from the opposition of Mars (L1) in the 5th by 2+ degrees in a fixed sign and succedent house. About 2 1/2 years ago, this querent asked me for advice about his marriage which ended at that time. This was followed by a disastrous relationship with another woman a few months later (well actually he was having a relationship with the other woman while he was still married). So my theory is that somehow the prospect of going on this trip with his current girlfriend is bringing back bad memories ...

Tara
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
Yes, Skyscript's definition seems to suggest a "time gap" also, or that the person will go through a period of time where nothing much seems to happen.
Laughing


I've been dealing with one such chart lately as a matter of fact- a very promising one only the Moon is still close to its last conjunction (1 degree separation) and a just a bit too dostant from its next application (app.1 degree) - I'm using 9 deg. orb in this case, luckily, as we do have a time gap. Also, the Moon's last separation was indicative of the Querent's unresolved matters from the past.

Quote:
In the case of the Sun's rays on the Moon though, I think that is another topic entirely!


Agreed!



Quote:
I also wonder about an ASC-Moon aspect sometimes leading to a functional Moon,


funny you should mention this- the chart that i mentioned does have a Moon/Asc sextile that happens way before the Moon's next application to another planet does but, in this particular case, I'm not sure if I can find any activity to support it as, according to my calculations, that event/activity should have already taken place.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1415

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Moon VOC: a question about separation Reply with quote

Tara wrote:
Is the Moon considered to be VOC in a horary context when it is still within orb of its last aspect but not yet within orb of its next aspect?

Case in point, earlier today the Moon at 7* Aqua separates from the opposition of Mars Rx by 2*45' and then faces a gap of some 16 degrees before it reaches conjunction with the Sun.

Is this a VOC Moon?

If not, how can it be expected to move the story along when it is not within reach of the next aspect or event?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Tara


Reading the postings as yet my impression is that at least the teachings of Lilly are not yet very clearly expressed?

That the Moon (or every other planet) can be called void of course it is necessary that she is between a completetd separation from one planet and the application to another. Having left the state of separation and not yet entered the one of application she is then neither in saparation nor in application - unconnected to any other of the planets.

Lilly calls the Moon ad vacuum when she is still in separation and at the end of it will not immediately ("forthwith") enter the application to another planet. She is then on the way to being void of course. But at this time of beeing ad vacuum the Moon is not yet void of course.

In this chart the Moon was never void of course, because still in separation form the oppsoition of Mars she already entered the application to the Sun.
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