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Positive chart? Known outcome
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No romance involved she truly wants to study art and painting!

That fits. The 5th house is the 'joy' of Venus and so it can be the arts as well.

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dr. farr

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Part of Travel (15Capricorn49) posited in the 4th house (by Whole Sign) to its significator (dispositor) Saturn, posited in the 12th house (Whole Sign) is 8 houses: by Pauline profection, giving 1 month to each house, the Part of Travel would profect to the place of its significator (Saturn) 8 months from the date of the question.
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Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Deb, and thank you for taking time to elaborate this.

Deb wrote:
I only hope I haven’t left the impression that I think questions regarding journeys should automatically use the 7th and not the 9th, because the difference of when to prefer the 7th rather than the 9th can be quite subtle. As a general principle it is worth looking at both, and seeing where the significators are, because the 9th and the 7th both have a natural affinity with this kind of situation.

I think your explanation was very straightforward and clear but I used a bit wrong combination of words when I said that you suggested that the 7th should be used rather than the 9th - you clearly suggested that both houses (rulers) should be examined and that we shoud try to determine which one looks more descriptive of the situation/destination.
In this particular case, while the Moon's first application was suggetsing that mercury should be taken seriously, the placement of L1 inside the rulership of L7 and so weak made me believe that the 7th just might be a good call. Still, and as many of us have aready mentioned- the Moon's placement did not look promising in the first place.

but, again, this Moon, though very "keen" on the Querent [I think you mean quesited here?],

Ah, true! A typo mistake- I did mean "the Quesited", yes! Thanks for noticing!

In a recent post I (sorry I forget where now) I mentioned how traditional authors describe an aspect from a detrimented planet into a place of debility as something that does not ‘perfect’ the matter of the question, but shows the destruction of it (or we get the references to ‘return of virtue’ when plants are too debilitated to make use of what they are given).

I don't recall reading it but I will find it - not so long ago, and here I cannot remember the name of thre thread, we actually had a similar discussion on the "mutual reception by detriment"- lacking in experience, I could only rely upon my common sense and it did seem to me that such a placement should be taken as descriptive of more than just a "barren field" or, even better- a fruitful field for a non-satisfactory result. The idea that two planets applying to each other from each other's detriment can actually cause a destruction does make a lot of sense as the planets are activated in such positions by the aspect. But, from what I gather (and I haven't had the oportunity to check that in his books), Frawley is actually suggesting that it is a form of a "beneficial" mutual reception!

I really appreciate you mentioning explaining this, I'll find the other thread!
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: England

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it is even correct to use the term "mutual reception by detriment" - its the sort of thing that adds to the confusion. A planet can only 'receive' aspects that get sent to it from an area where it holds dignity. Traditionally, this has to be a place of strong dignity - either sign or exaltation or at least two of the minor dignities. A planet can't "give a reception" to an aspect that comes from an area of weak dignity, let alone a place of debility. So there is no such thing as "mutual reception by detriment" this is just a debilitated contact that is not received.

Some time soon I'll have a reason to dig out the relevant passages from the older authors and I'll add them to the glossary, or put something a little more 'thoughtful' together (so that I am not referring back to hastily written comments in posts I can't even remember Smile)
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