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Part of Fortune Part 2

 
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Part of Fortune Part 2 Reply with quote

Hello:

I wrote a 2nd article about the Part of Fortune, since that my last one was kind of controversial.

It is at http://www.astrologiahumana.com/pofresearch.pdf

This time I aimed to present the experimental research I did, chosing by random 20 nocturnal charts from the Astrodatabank´s data.

The first part of the article is a quotation from the Hellenistic time authors up to the Medieval ones, respecting the role of the Lot of Fortune and the Lot of Spirit.

The last part of the article is the presentation of the 20 charts, their biographical data and my own delineation according to the Part of Fortune and the Part of Spirit.

It´s a quite long article. But I think it has somethig to say:-)

I hope to hear from you about it!

best wishes

Clelia Romano
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dr. farr



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very fine article! Thank you for your important contribution to a better understanding of Fortune and Spirit!

(PS: in the nativitity of St. Joan of Arc {birth data per Astrodienst data bank, which I am convinced is valid-for support of this statement see my posting on the Joan of Arc thread in the Astrodata Bank Discussion section} the Part of Fortune presents a very interesting study; her birth time is right before the moment of sundown, and since I follow the POF reversal formula I almost attributed the Part of Spirit to the place of the POF; significantly her POF is conjunct her Part of Death!)
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A very fine article! Thank you for your important contribution to a better understanding of Fortune and Spirit!


It´s my time to thank you for your gracious words, Dr Farr!

Quote:
(PS: in the nativitity of St. Joan of Arc {birth data per Astrodienst data bank, which I am convinced is valid-for support of this statement see my posting on the Joan of Arc thread in the Astrodata Bank Discussion section} the Part of Fortune presents a very interesting study; her birth time is right before the moment of sundown, and since I follow the POF reversal formula I almost attributed the Part of Spirit to the place of the POF; significantly her POF is conjunct her Part of Death)


I´m trying to find the thread, but I´m not having success. Is it at Nativities&Traditional Astrology? Or in Traditional techniques?

I´m looking forward your answer!

best wishes

Clelia Romano
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Julian



Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this.

Thank you

Julian
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julian wrote:
I like this.

Thank you

Julian


Thanks for your feedback, Julian!

best wishes

Clelia
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astrojin



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 483

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Clelia,

Very good work!

[and I am not an easy person to give compliments!]


Since there is so little public work done on the traditional treatment of the Lots, I strongly urge you to continue this line of work with other Lots (say Lot of Eros for relationship, Lot of death - especially Lot of death for there are Lots of Lot of death!, you could do the same technique comparing the different Lots...]

Good work indeed!
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dr. farr



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clelia:

My posting (about one of the reasons I believe the date given for the birth of St. Joan of Arc is accurate) is at the Astro.com web site, on the Forum, in the "Astro-Databank discussion Section", dated 12/10/09. In that brief post I give as one of my reasons the close longitudinal conjunction/near exact declination parallel of the South Ascellus with Joan of Arc's ascendant degree (1Leo29), the description of the Ascellus being so close to the keynote qualities of Joan of Arc's life, and of her death.

The Astro-Databank birth data for Joan of Arc is Friday, January 15, 1413 (Greg), time 5:00 PM, Domremy la Pucelle, France. It is a very interesting chart, especially in light of the historical record (or legends) of her short life (she was murdered soon after her 19th year; burned at the stake) Her natal chart, especially in Whole Sign format, clearly shows a variety of astrological "causal influences" for keynote events.

-St. Joan's Part of Fortune (using the night formula, for the Sun was setting at that mid-January 5 PM birth) is 6Gemini41, and her (natal) Pars Anareta ("Part of Killing" or "Taker of Life") is also exactly at 6Gemini41 (calculated as Ascendant +Ruler of asc-Moon)
A most remarkable affinity!
-Her Part of Spirit (also applying the nocturnal formula) is 26Virgo17, conjunct (by longitude) Zaniah (taken back to 1413), a fixed star of Venus/Mercury quality (Robson) which well describes (at least what we believe from history) St. Joan's qualities of spirit (see Robson for details under Zaniah, also his description of "Venus/Mercury" qualities) Interesting also that Mercury is dispositor of the Part of Fortune, the Part of Spirit and of the Pars Anareta.
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To Clelia,

Very good work!

[and I am not an easy person to give compliments!]


Hi Astrojin!

I´m happy you chose my article to give your compliments Laughing


Quote:
Since there is so little public work done on the traditional treatment of the Lots, I strongly urge you to continue this line of work with other Lots (say Lot of Eros for relationship, Lot of death - especially Lot of Death for there are Lots of Lot of death!, you could do the same technique comparing the different Lots...]


It would be nice, may be in a next project I´ll do it!
The problem with the other lots is that they are not as important as the Spirit and the Fortune are, and sometimes we don´t need them to reach a good delineation.
Also, some lots are calculated differently by the ancient authors, and this is a problem.

For example, we use the Part of Death to calculate the native´s death, since it is used to compose an almuten of several places to arrive to the killing planet.
I use the Part of Death according Hermes and Al Biruni, because Zoller says so and I learned with him, but Paulus has a different way to calculate it.

So, we get insecure if we are dealing with the right place. The same happens with other lots, like the marriage lot, for example.

Perhaps first we may have to find which of the formulas is correct.

The same does not occur with the Lot of Fortune and Spirit that always took into consideration the ASC and the luminaries: the only problem with them was if we have to reverse them or not.


Quote:
Good work indeed!


Thank you for the support: I really appreciated it!

Clelia Romano
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi dr. farr!

Thanks for the clarification!
The Solar Fire and Janus are not able to give me the right chart. They both have not accepted the Gregorian calendar.
So I have the ASC at 8 degrees, and it is not right.
I´ll install again my Astrodatabank, to force the Solar Fire to draw the right chart.

I´ll comment your post later!

best wishes

Clelia

dr. farr wrote:
Clelia:

My posting (about one of the reasons I believe the date given for the birth of St. Joan of Arc is accurate) is at the Astro.com web site, on the Forum, in the "Astro-Databank discussion Section", dated 12/10/09. In that brief post I give as one of my reasons the close longitudinal conjunction/near exact declination parallel of the South Ascellus with Joan of Arc's ascendant degree (1Leo29), the description of the Ascellus being so close to the keynote qualities of Joan of Arc's life, and of her death.

The Astro-Databank birth data for Joan of Arc is Friday, January 15, 1413 (Greg), time 5:00 PM, Domremy la Pucelle, France. It is a very interesting chart, especially in light of the historical record (or legends) of her short life (she was murdered soon after her 19th year; burned at the stake) Her natal chart, especially in Whole Sign format, clearly shows a variety of astrological "causal influences" for keynote events.

-St. Joan's Part of Fortune (using the night formula, for the Sun was setting at that mid-January 5 PM birth) is 6Gemini41, and her (natal) Pars Anareta ("Part of Killing" or "Taker of Life") is also exactly at 6Gemini41 (calculated as Ascendant +Ruler of asc-Moon)
A most remarkable affinity!
-Her Part of Spirit (also applying the nocturnal formula) is 26Virgo17, conjunct (by longitude) Zaniah (taken back to 1413), a fixed star of Venus/Mercury quality (Robson) which well describes (at least what we believe from history) St. Joan's qualities of spirit (see Robson for details under Zaniah, also his description of "Venus/Mercury" qualities) Interesting also that Mercury is dispositor of the Part of Fortune, the Part of Spirit and of the Pars Anareta.

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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr. farr wrote:
Clelia:

The Astro-Databank birth data for Joan of Arc is Friday, January 15, 1413 (Greg), time 5:00 PM, Domremy la Pucelle, France. It is a very interesting chart, especially in light of the historical record (or legends) of her short life (she was murdered soon after her 19th year; burned at the stake) Her natal chart, especially in Whole Sign format, clearly shows a variety of astrological "causal influences" for keynote events.

-St. Joan's Part of Fortune (using the night formula, for the Sun was setting at that mid-January 5 PM birth) is 6Gemini41, and her (natal) Pars Anareta ("Part of Killing" or "Taker of Life") is also exactly at 6Gemini41 (calculated as Ascendant +Ruler of asc-Moon)
A most remarkable affinity!
-Her Part of Spirit (also applying the nocturnal formula) is 26Virgo17, conjunct (by longitude) Zaniah (taken back to 1413), a fixed star of Venus/Mercury quality (Robson) which well describes (at least what we believe from history) St. Joan's qualities of spirit (see Robson for details under Zaniah, also his description of "Venus/Mercury" qualities) Interesting also that Mercury is dispositor of the Part of Fortune, the Part of Spirit and of the Pars Anareta.


Hi again, dr Farr!

I casted Joan of Arc ´s chart, finally!

To say the truth, and as a general consideration, sorry if I will disappoint you, but I really do not think this is Joan of Arc real chart. Confused
She was an important figure . How comes she has not even one of the planets in a good celestial state?
The Moon is cadent, in opposition to the place she rejoices. The Sun, the ASC ruler is with the Spirit, cadent, in a bad house, the 6th .
The chart is a nocturnal one, and this is a fact that cuts the fame in a half.
Saturn is out of sect and Rx and it is with the Fortune, in opposition to Venus. There is no reception between them.
BTW, Venus is in the 5th place where she rejoices! How can we believe Joan of Arc having a Venus in the 5th house?
What pleasure she had? Sex and children? Nope.
Mars is the only planet in an angle with the North Node, the only testimony that fits with the profile we have.
Mercury, ruler of both Lots is cadent as well, in the 6th house.
I´ll tell you one thing: if the data was considered an AA by Astrodatabank I would feel very uneasy to explain the accidents in the native´s life specially the fame Wink)
Sorry dr Farr, but I don´t think that it is the correct data for an heroic character!

best wishes

Clelia Romano
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