Combustion or cazimi in significators 1 by wintersa I'm afraid I have another horary beginner's question! I'm looking at a chart in which the significator of the querent (Venus at 24'50 Capricorn) is in the same degree as the Sun (24'12 Capricorn). If they are 38 minutes apart (is that the correct terminology?) is it more appropriate to say that Venus (the querent) is strengthened by the proximity to the Sun, or is it a horrible combustion? In a case of combustion, where the combust planet signifies the querent, will it tend to deny the thing asked about, or is it more often descriptive of the querent's state? (In this case, the quesited is applying to a trine with the querent (Venus) and also the Sun. The question is about the outcome of a matter which requires the querent to face her fears (and some authority figures).) Is it appropriate to say that the querent is intimidated by, fearful of, or overshadowed by the Sun, but that the matter will come to a positive resolution (possibly through the Sun, which is also trining the significator of the quesited)? Or does the partile conjunction to the Sun damage the querent and spoil a positive outcome? Quote Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:54 pm
2 by aglaya Hi, wintersa. It's ok to ask questions! Cazimi is the placement of a planet when it is within 17' of the Sun (both prior and after the conjunction) so, no, this Venus from your chart is not Cazimi as it is twice as much distant from the Sun. As for the rest- it will all pretty much depend on the rest of the chart and the situation. More often than not, it does imply that the Querent is "blinded" in a way or "overwhelmed" by something but, again, it's hard to tell without the chart. Yet, if the ruler of the Quesited is applying to both planets, it would be very important to know if the Querent's ruler is applying to the Sun or separating from it as the latter would also be a sign of prohibition (The quesited's ruler froming a partile aspect with the Sun first). Last edited by aglaya on Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:35 am, edited 2 times in total. Quote Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:23 pm
3 by wintersa Thanks, Aglaya. Unfortunately I made a mistake: the Quesited (Saturn) somehow only forms an aspect with the Querent (and not the Sun also). I still don't see how this is possible, since the Querent (Venus) and Sun are in the same degree! Can it have something to do with Saturn's motion, which was, I believe, possibly stationing at the time? The Querent's ruler is separating from the Sun. And Quesited (Saturn) is applying to the trine of the Querent, but somehow not to the Sun. The question is radical -- there's agreement between the hour and ascendant, and the significators are very descriptive. (The question is, "Will I be readmitted to the graduate school?" and the Querent and the Moon are both in the 9th house. The Quesited is the ruler of the 9th and 10th houses, befitting the university's power academically and professionally to help the querent continue her academic career.) However, in light of the discussion on considerations before judgment in the other topic, I've just noticed that the Ascendant is 3'39. Three degrees is considered the traditional limit of acceptability (for all but very young querents), and so perhaps this indicates that the situation is slightly premature, or in the very early stages? Shall I post the chart? Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:54 am
4 by Paul A picture says a thousand words. Post the chart and then it'll be clearer. Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:23 am
5 by aglaya wintersa wrote:Thanks, Aglaya. Unfortunately I made a mistake: the Quesited (Saturn) somehow only forms an aspect with the Querent (and not the Sun also). I still don't see how this is possible, since the Querent (Venus) and Sun are in the same degree! Can it have something to do with Saturn's motion, which was, I believe, possibly stationing at the time? I don't think it is possible , it's geometry! If the degrees are distant, say, 180?from each other then so are the planets occupying them. Maybe the type of chart is confusing you as most of the times, when the planets are conjuncts, their aspets to other planets are shown with a single line (as they "overlap). It's the degrees that count and most softawares provide a list or table of aspects where you can see the details. So, if the planets are indeed at the same degree, then they're both forming th aspect with Saturn only here, bare in mind that bth these planets are actually slower than Saturn and thus- applying to it rather than receiving its application. The chart will tell whether there is a prohibition or not! So, yes, the chart would help a lot! Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:49 am
7 by handn Hello The software is using a 10 degree orb for the trine, and the Sun isn't within that range whereas Venus is. The trine is out-of-sign though.... Regards H. Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:29 am
8 by handn Moon as co-sig is under sun beams and heading into combustion as well.... and what a jam-packed 9th! Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:41 am
9 by wintersa The question is "Will I be readmitted to the university [to complete my graduate degree]?" The querent is represented by Venus in Capricorn in the 9th, and the question by the Moon in the 9th; appropriate symbolism for a young woman concerned about continuing her studies. The Quesited is taken as the ruler of the 9th (and 10th, appropriately: the degree is required for the academic career the querent wants) - Saturn in Libra near the cusp of the 6th. This well-dignified Saturn is taken as representing the university -- authoritative, slow to move, powerful, potentially restrictive but determined to act justly or with dignity, old, etc. It is found in its own terms, and thus is thinking about its own interests; the Querent, however, is in Saturn's terms and is much concerned with what he thinks or is doing. Venus is the most elevated planet (I believe), close to the MC -- the Querent will be "in the hot seat" during this process, or the center of the goings-on. There is an applying trine between Saturn and Venus. The Moon (signifying the question?) is also applying to conjunct Venus. These both seem to be positive indications of a "Yes" answer. And yet there are confusing details -- Saturn seems to be either retrograde or stationing, and Venus is extremely close to the Sun (and Moon under the beams and in detriment). Does the North Node have any role here? Oh, and what to make of the earlyish ascendant? (3'39)? Is it too early to say, or does it reflect that the process is just beginning? Unfortunately I don't have software at the moment that will help me see what the planets are doing next. Thank you for any insight you can offer. Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:41 am
10 by handn You're right about Saturn, it was stationary, turning retrograde. Combustion is considered to be one of the worst debilities. The Moon is heading towards New Moon, but the node which you asked about tells us that this is not an ordinary new moon, it's an eclipse. The eclipse happened on the 15th, as did Saturn's station. If you don't have software you might find this useful.... this page at astro.com has ephemerides you can view/print http://www.astro.com/swisseph/swepha_e.htm Regards H. Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:51 am
11 by Paul Okay so you were right, Saturn is at station going retrograde which is one of the most 'vulnerable' positions to have a planet. Luckily that planet represents teh University rather than you. Maybe there's some dispute internally in the University about its future. You are indeed combust. There's also no aspect between your main sig, venus, and the sig of the university, Saturn. There is no applying trine as the planets are in quite an orb of one another but regardless, they are out of sign. However Saturn WILL make an aspect when venus moves into aquarius which celestially took place on the 22nd of jan but in context of the question you can say that it WILL happen, but only after a chance of circumstance. However the two planets share mutual reception which is good. My guess is that YES, they will, but only after a change of situation. With the 9th also representing tests/exams and your moon in fall there, perhaps you've failed an exam or test, but upon resubmitting and subsequently passing they accept you? EDIT oops started writing this before handn's post. Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:13 am
12 by handn By way of addition, this is what Deb said in August 2009, hope it helps It?s interesting what people ask about on eclipses I wonder if there are any charts that work out well when the eclipse is an underlying factor in the chart? I agree with Olivia?s point that dignity has to be considered too, and yet I feel that combustion and cazimi are always relevant, so being in rulership or exaltation is not, for me, going to stop the influence of the synodic event. It is comparable to saying that the Moon is not really eclipsed when it is in Cancer or Taurus. (I know that this is not what Olivia is saying, BTW, but I am stretching the point for emphasis). Where I do relax a little is with Venus and Mercury, especially Mercury, because their planetary cycles are designed to stay close to the Sun; so I see them as being less sensitive to its influence. But for the Moon and the superiors there is no situation in which being under the Sun?s beams wouldn?t be a major factor in my judgement. And that's not just in horary. http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4609 Quote Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:23 am