Goal-Scoring Patterns

1
I thought I'd start a separate thread where we can share our observations and ideas on this subject. Basically we want to try and find out when goals are scored and who scores them. Here are my current thoughts.

When?
Asc changing sign
MC changing sign
Planetary hour changing
Moon perfecting an aspect
(Planets crossing angles - not very reliable)

These might need some fine-tuning, e.g. whether the signs and planets involved need to be related to team significators or not.

As far as betting is concerned, we only need exact times for the first goal scored overall and/or the first goal scored in the 2nd half. The bookies list these in 10-minute slots. I'm not aware of any bets for timing of other goals. More generally it would be useful to know in which half the goals are scored in order to try and predict half-time/full-time, half-time scoreline etc.

Which team?
Arabic parts aspecting significators (conjunctions seem to work best)
Significators crossing angles
(Lunar aspects to significators (within 5??) - not very reliable)

I think the first list has to be combined with the second list. For example, the planetary hour may change but a goal won't be scored unless there is also a testimony indicating that someone will score it!

I know some of you have been looking at other indicators too, so please do contribute your ideas and observations. It would be great if we could manage to predict some correct scores and/or the total number of goals scored.
Last edited by Ficina on Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2
I have been thinking for a while about posting some thoughts on Planetary Hours, and this seems an appropriate thread: goals on change of hour. They are also, of course, vital in determining if a chart is radical or not.

The simple way to calculate the hour is to take sunrise time to sunset time (and sunset to sunrise) and divide by 12, marking off equal length day hours and equal (but different) length night hours. Question: when is sunrise and sunset? Is it Sun conjunct Asc and Dsc? In fact, when the Sun is on the horizon everyone would say it?s daylight. The day seems to start before sunrise and end after sunset. Those in the UK who are as old as I am will remember ?lighting-up time? which started 30 minutes after sunset and ended 30 minutes before sunrise. Most astrological programs allow you to set how long before sunrise the day starts and how long after sunset the day ends. Do you know what your program is set to? You might not agree with the default!

A further complication is that because of refraction, sunrise and sunset are not when the Sun is on the horizon! Again some programs allow you to set this correction. The technical definition is:? The times of sunrise and sunset refer to the times when the Sun's upper limb, as affected by refraction, is on the true horizon of an observer at sea-level. This occurs when the Sun's centre is 50 arcminutes below the true horizon, the upper limb then being 34 arcminutes (just more than the Sun's apparent diameter) below the true horizon.?

OK, that?s the simple way to calculate planetary hours! An alternative (which I think Andrew favours, and which I use) is to use the house position of the Sun. This does start/end the day when the Sun is on the horizon (conjunct cusp of H1/H7). In effect you take half houses (the house calculations for all the house systems can be modified to give intermediate half-house cusps between H1 and H12, H12 and H11, etc). so you have 24 ?houses?. The half-house position of the Sun gives the planetary hour in the obvious way. The major problem here is which house system to use, never an easy question! For calculating planetary house, personally I favour Alcabitus.

I have noticed that some of the posts reporting times of goals have said things like: ?5 minutes after the change of hour? or ?3 minutes before the change of hour?, etc. I wonder if this might be because of the way people are calculating the hour - different people using different methods/definitions. Indeed, goal times might help us determine the right method! In any case, it might help if people report their planetary hour calculation method when reporting the hour.

3
I'm not sure if we can say there's definitely a 'right' method. It's rather like reversing Arabic parts by night - some do it and some don't. It's the usual case of putting the theory into practice. So when you say
I have noticed that some of the posts reporting times of goals have said things like: ?5 minutes after the change of hour? or ?3 minutes before the change of hour?, etc. I wonder if this might be because of the way people are calculating the hour - different people using different methods/definitions.
Does the method you use give more accurate timings for those goals being scored? Perhaps you could give some examples so we can see whether it works in practice.

As I said, we only need exact times for the first goal in each half - for betting purposes anyway. Other than that, all we need to know is that a goal will be scored (not necessarily when), in which case the precise moment of the hour change wouldn't be so relevant, especially if it's a matter of only a few minutes' difference.

5
Yes, when I mentioned 'other indicators' I had in mind what you said about North Node entering 5th house. I've never checked intermediate house cusp action but I think it's good that we're monitoring different things to try and establish what works most reliably.

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Ficina wrote:Yes, when I mentioned 'other indicators' I had in mind what you said about North Node entering 5th house.
And a few interesting points from Seiko here:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewt ... c&start=53

Let's analyze Tottenham-Fulham 2:0
Started at approximately 20:02
1:0 - 20:29
2:0 - 21:20

What can we see on the chart at these moments? I may be wrong, or may have missed a few :oops: it' late :) (GMT+1 here) anyway I found these:
20:29 - North node leaves the 5th house (enters the 4th)
21:18 (not 21:20, 2 minutes earlier) Jupiter enters the 5th
21:20 MC trine Neptune
(Placidus houses)

8
Another game from last night: Wolves 0 - 0 Liverpool (ko 7.48pm approx)

Mars (red-Liverpool) was hour-ruler during 1st half but there was nothing going on for Mars, hence no goals.
Sun (gold-Wolves) was hour-ruler during 2nd half.
POF conjunct Sun produced nothing and I've noticed this in previous games too.
Sudden Advancement conjunct Sun in the last minute of added time. No late goal :( but the draw was a good result for Wolves (underdogs) enabling them to 'advance' up the table sufficiently to get them out of the relegation zone (albeit marginally on goal difference).

9
Ficina, you mentioned earlier that Jupiter is often involved somehow in case of matches with many goals. Well, if 19:45 (no serious delay) is (was) the k.o. time of the Bristol match (which PA mentioned, 6 goals), then we have Jupiter square MC. It sounds fine! :) On the other hand, Wolves 0:0 game, began at around 19:48, we have Saturn trine MC.

I'm not 100% happy with the data I found about the Tottenham goals, I mean the North node and Jupiter going in or out of the 5th, as Jupiter (not to mention the node :) ) can't be associated with any of the teams, according to colors: Tottenham Moon or Venus, Fulham Mars or Saturn.

10
I think the sportscrew here at Skyscript have come up with some interesting incidences where goals were scored at the the change of the planetary hour, although Ficina and others are working with a time-based system in contrast to my space-based perspective. I think these systems should just run in parallell for the time being. It feels as if they are adding persctive to things rather than annulling one another.

But I am still looking for a way to discern more information from the planetary hours and issue of radicality. I believe either Ficina or John suggested something like the 'guests would score as the hour changed to Saturn, who was L7' - something like that. (I'm too exhausted to look it up this evening). That's an interesting idea. I'm wishing there was a way that the lord of the day more certainly gave fortitude to the lord of the hour. My general observation in horary charts is that when these two planets disagree there is more indication of trouble or controversy.

Which planet is taken to represent the referee in a chart?
http://www.astronor.com

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Taurean wrote:I'm not 100% happy with the data I found about the Tottenham goals, I mean the North node and Jupiter going in or out of the 5th, as Jupiter (not to mention the node Smile ) can't be associated with any of the teams, according to colors: Tottenham Moon or Venus, Fulham Mars or Saturn.
That doesn't matter because timings aren't necessarily related to particular teams scoring. So the 5th house stuff you've mentioned here would come under the When? heading :)
Andrew wrote:Which planet is taken to represent the referee in a chart?
Since when did the referee score goals? :P As all the traditional planets are busy signifying teams, it would probably have to be one of the outers or perhaps you could find an Arabic part for him?

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Taurean wrote:Wolves 0:0 game....we have Saturn trine MC.
Last night's Villa game also ended 0-0. I've just checked the chart and Saturn was applying trine MC! Looks like you're onto something there, Taurean :' The Chelsea game which kicked off at the same time ended 3-0 but in that chart the Saturn aspect was separating.