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Sun conjunct Black Moon Lilith

 
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jove



Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 7
Location: tiburon ca

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:29 am    Post subject: Sun conjunct Black Moon Lilith Reply with quote

Hi I just read the post about not asking about your own specific chart,so although I do have this specific combination in my own chart and would like to find out about it, maybe this discussion can be more general.
I would just like to learn about the different possible manifestations of having the sun conjunct Black Moon Lilith in one's chart.I have read that Lilith represents 'the dark feminine' but have no idea how this would manifest in a person's personality.I have also read that it is similar in tone to Pluto.Would it add a certain type of intensity to the personality and what would that be like specifically? With Black Moon Lilith conjuncting the sun would the basic core of the personality have a 'dark' tone? 'Dark' in what way?
Some people that have this aspect that I know of so far are--Winona Ryder,River Phoenix and Drew Barrymore.
If I may refer to my own chart-- I have it in Cancer in the 10th house along with Venus,Fortuna and Pandora.
I would really like to learn more about Black Moon Lilith,not just about the myth,but how it's placement in one's natal chart concretely manifests in someone's personality.
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Sandra Lacey



Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 7
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Black Moon Lilith has some similarity to the lunar nodes in that the point is in relationship with the earth and moon, as is the Priestess in relationship to earth (Gaia) and the moon. It is an earth/moon point connected to feminine energies and should not be confused with the Dark Moon Lilith or the asteroid of Lilith. It represents the power of feminine energy and is a symbol of the Great Goddess.

The Lilith point is the doorway where the energy of the Great Goddess pours into our chart and life. The image of Lilith cannot be captured.
The Black Moon Lilith encompasses a lot of the energy of the black moon and therefore the unconscious forces. It is often in the second part of life that her energies become apparent, often during the crone or wise woman time. Lilith challenges us to face ourselves and own up to our anger.

Wherever the Black Moon Lilith is in the chart, she will have concerns with our souls’ journey. There is a fascination with this point as we seem to not be able to live with Lilith, nor can we live without her. Lilith rebels against subservience, as she wanted equality but not control. Where Lilith is in the chart is an indication of where it may be difficult to compromise.

When the Black Moon Lilith is located on the MC, or conjunct the Ascendant or Sun, it is in a strongly placed position. There is a theme of banishment and exile, and internal marginalisation. We are challenged to bring our power back out of exile and if we do not, the energy becomes destructive. Part of the truth of Lilith is to be true to that energy, embracing it and finding a way to express it without alienation. Lilith also compels us to experience periodic time out or exile and spend time away from others, to renew the self, going to the metaphorical menstrual hut.

Pure Lilith energy is instinctual and demands acknowledgement, if not, there is often a heavy sacrifice. To allow and honour death, pain and grief is to make that tribute. Our society sanitises grief and pain, not allowing it its full consideration. The house placement of the Black Moon Lilith, its aspects to other planets, tell us something about what we must sacrifice and honour in the spiral cycle. We may need to go back to our childhood and look at feelings of persecution, disempowerment and work out a way to re-empower ourselves without the necessity of bullying and ‘power-over’ tactics.

The mystery of the laws of cycles is connected with Lilith, birth, harvest and death. We need to honour these cycles, especially to sacrifice and let it go, allowing something new to be born. If we hold on to it, it just loses its energy anyway. This kind of transformation can be very Plutonic.

Wherever the Black Moon Lilith is in the chart, is the gift of the Great Goddess. If we are not afraid of letting go, we can re-claim that great gift. The Lilith part of us knows when it is time to let go or to stay with it until the end and then let go. The willingness to wait and go through the process of healing before gestating something new is the challenge to integrate the feminine polarity, seeing the soul in each person rather than the facade. This astrological point is associated with the feminine wounding and the priestess archetype.

I have re-printed the above from part of the astrological thesis I submitted for my diploma of advanced astrology. The thesis subject was the astrology of women's mysteries. I did a study to determine if I could find the priestess archetype in women. Cheers.

Sandra Lacey
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandra Lacey wrote:
. Where Lilith is in the chart is an indication of where it may be difficult to compromise.

When the Black Moon Lilith is located on the MC, or conjunct the Ascendant or Sun, it is in a strongly placed position. There is a theme of banishment and exile, and internal marginalisation. We are challenged to bring our power back out of exile and if we do not, the energy becomes destructive. Part of the truth of Lilith is to be true to that energy, embracing it and finding a way to express it without alienation. Lilith also compels us to experience periodic time out or exile and spend time away from others, to renew the self, going to the metaphorical menstrual hut.



Sandra Lacey


Lovely article, thank you for sharing it! I have lilith smack on my Ascendant, but I never realy used it (in astrology that is Smile ), i will surely read this a few more times.

Based on what you're mentioning in this part, it actually only "supports" the placement of my Ascendant ruler inside the 12th- very interesting.
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masyn



Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 22

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I call the Black Moon, "the place where you cry with grief".

My Black moon progressing (by solar arc) over my Sun caused my only stint of uncontrollable depression over a few months.
Before this time, I really couldn't understand how a person couldn't talk, reason or action their way out 'misery'.

I now know how helpless a person is in the grip of depression.

The Black Moon causes misery, fortunately it's only a minor point in the chart.
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jove



Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 7
Location: tiburon ca

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:01 am    Post subject: Black Moon Lilith Reply with quote

I thought Lilith had some similarities to Pluto.Though it may be intense I wouldn't say it causes nothing but misery.
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Gracehoper



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 1

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, Dark Moon Lilith (which is really an axis along with Unicorn or Priapus, whichever you like to call it-- the opposite point) represents Multiplicity, just as Unicorn represents Singularity. The way Lilith often plays out is deceit-- because multiplicity of message is the equal of Deceit, whereas singularity of message is Truth. Sun conjunct Lilith could be someone who has many sides to them, like Winona Ryder who thought nothing of shoplifting despite her riches.
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Vindex



Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 53

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have some practial questions about Black Moon and dark Moon.

there is a bit confusion about this.

I read that some astrologers and even astronomers think that Earth has two satelites. He is called Dark Moon Lilitlih and the assume that he really exists.

On the other side, Black Moon is hypotetical planet.

ON astro com is found him coded with name h52.

Can sombody explain that difference better ?
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hervaro



Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Antwerp, Be.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must be that Black Moon/Dark Moon/Lilith really is a modern concept, seen all the different ways to read and interpret it!

In the Netherlands there is the (in the Netherlands very) famous astrologer George Bode, who has written some books on the Black Moon (in dutch; dunno if there are translations available).
Based on Cabbalistic philosophy a.o.t., in his view the position of the Black Moon (henceforward called BM) showed which area in life you were denied, where you were like destroyed in your personal goals and talents, early early early in first childhood years.
Culprits for this crime, most of the time, will be your parents - though they should be granted innocence by ignorance, lol.
In his philosophy, this denial or destruction is caused because of the BM representing your (read: YOUR!) unique (read: UNIQUE!) talent (read: TALENT!) ( Leery ), kind of like your very own magic wand, a super-quality which makes you different from every other living soul (except those with the same BM-natal position, hehe). How so? Well, because of cosmic order, stupid!
Lizzen carevully - I vill zay zis onnly wance!
Everybody comes into this life, with a special gift or talent. Now, if everyone was allowed to grow up and develop into mature persons, whilst having access to this "magic wand" represented by the BM, we all would use its magic to avoid/transform/annihilate every obstacle or difficulty we 're bound to encounter on our road thru life (it 's the human condition!). Hence, we wouldn't be able to grow and evolve through confrontation and hardship. Hence there would be no point in being incarnated 'cos we would'nt learn a thing!
Thus, in this view, the BM becomes your secret weapon, something you have to (re)conquer, because it really belongs to YOU, but you must merit it.

I 've applied this "doctrine" for about 10yrs or maybe more, in my astrological practice, because it was soooo apparent and recognisable in my own chart (BM Lilith sitting smack on my ascendant: the denial of Life, of vitality, the denial of existing as a person!).
But seeing that with the yrs, even in such a limited space as Netherlands and Belgium, there arose more and more diffferent views on this BM-thing, at some point I quit using it in my delineations.
That was shortly before I started to study classical astrology, some 6 yrs ago. Using the traditional approach, it was obvious - even though this BM's meaning/interpretation was soooo app&recog for me - that the 7 planets with their essential and accidental qualities, did the job on their own!
I mean, peregrine Saturn (L4) sitting 1 degree above the Scorpio-asc, and co-joining a Venus in her detriment within the 1st house, tells the story of denial of existence / having had to flirt with dead on several occasions, very well and explicitly!
Since then (embracing tradition), I 'll only look up the BM's position when a client explitly asks for it (don't you hate that! Sick ). But then again, 4 out of 5 times, I can indeed wipe the BM's position out again, because of the prob/talent being shown by traditional interpretation...

I don't know if this really "adds" to this thread - just hope so -, so I 'll stop ranting Shocked
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masyn



Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Posts: 22

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Hervard/Herman

I'll take your reply on board and check my chart.
What you report may have validity, but in my case the BM :
is applying an opposition to my Mars in Libra/9th
and also applying a square to Ceres in Cancer/6th
(they are also applying a square)

Please send a few interpretations everyone.
I've never really bothered about the BM except for that one period of depression mentioned a couple of replies back.

My thought would be (on Herman's info) that I have to work on physical activity.
Note: I have a strong body, well suited to activity but whenever I start an exercise routine i end up with continuing bouts of 'illness' as long as I continue to keep up the activity. Weeks/Months whatever.
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can recommend an excellent book which we read in our astrological book club on the various Lilith points and archetypes. It's written by M. Kelly Hunter, Living Lilith: Four Dimensions of the Cosmic Feminine.

Tara
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~Kent~



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 36
Location: Los Angeles, California

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black Moon Lilith corresponds to the lunar apogee



The apogee and perigee of the moon have a definite affect on the weather and tides here on Earth. When the moon is at Apogee, the furthest distance from the Earth, it has less gravitational pull. Weather conditions can be more stable and the tides more predictable. When the moon is at perigee, closer to the Earth, there is much more gravitational pull and it can whip up the tides and cause weather to become more unstable.

I wouldn't expect the Sun at lunar apogee point would have any effect.
But the Moon at its apogee would have an effect on the Moon, relative to Earth.

Here is the article that goes with the picture.

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_lilith_e.htm


Last edited by ~Kent~ on Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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~Kent~



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 36
Location: Los Angeles, California

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notice the apparent size of Moon at apogee is smaller. The larger Moon is at perigee, the closest point in the lunar orbit to the Earth.



The Moon's orbit is elliptical: its average orbital radius is
384401 km, apogee (farthest distance from the Earth) is 406700 km, and
perigee (distance of closest approach to the Earth) is 356400 km.

At apogee the Moon is 50,000 km further from the earth than at perigee.

A case could be made that at apogee the Moon has less effect on the person or event for which the chart is erected the same as it has less effect on Earth's tides and weather. It's further away, visibly smaller, and with less gravitational pull on the Earth.
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waybread



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 949
Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really interesting posts, everyone! I look forward to checking them out with some charts.

In Jewish mythology (deriving from the Fertile Crescent/Assyria) Lilith was the quintessential Bad Girl who was Adam's first wife, before Eve. She refused to submit to Adam's "rightful" domination, and fled to the desert, where she cohabited with demons and gave birth to demons. In eastern Europe, her mythology migrated with the Jews and blended with folklore of demonized local goddesses, and she became known as a sort of powerful evil witch who spoiled the milk and stole babies from their cradles. Families had charms to ward off her harmful influences.

So she became the Bad Girl of the zodiac. This is consistent with the above more empowering interpretations if you think of how threatening they are to traditional patriarchy. She is the Wild Thing that men cannot control. (Cf. Clarissa Pinkola Estes, Women Who Run with the Wolves.)

Lilith was prominent in the timing of Tiger Woods's fall from grace. I would look for her transits in personal disasters involving women.

If a man has a difficult aspect to BML in his chart, he may fear and try to suppress her archetype in women he meets. If well BML is well aspected, he probably admires independent women.

If a woman's BML is in a difficult aspect, she may come across to others as a kind of wicked witch, or the stereotypical man-hater. If well aspected, she exemplifies personal freedom, regardless of how others try to control her.

Conjunct the sun, BML should give the female native either a positive Wild Woman sense of herself; or, if in a difficult aspect, of being out-of-place in a society that values docile, feminine women.
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Jozy



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edited

Last edited by Jozy on Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jozy



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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edited
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