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Interview tomorrow afternoon
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see what you mean here by mentioning Venus/Saturn separating square, since Venus is not a significator of the job? She is Saturn's dispositor, but herself also in a very bad shape, being located in the twelfth and combust.

As I understand in any horary one should be able to see a positive aspect to the lord of the lord of the 4th of the matter if the lord of the matter is aspected well. Lilly did Not use just the lord of the matter's aspects but many indicators in his point system to judge a horary.

Saturn is acting primarily as the lord of the ascendant, signifying in this case only the querent(along with the Moon); there's no need(or justification) for his playing the role of the ruler of the end of the matter house(the 4th) from the 10th.

If I understood you correctly, by implication, in any horary concerning searach for a job, a square(or some other) aspect of the ASC ruler with the ruler of the 10th would be negative, indicating the end of the matter? The end of the matter is best indicated either by the ruler of the radical 4th, in my opinion, or by the immediate application of the ASC ruler/Moon.

The first part of the above statement you understand, but the ruler of the horary's fourth is about the horary question rather than the matter; if I understood Louis correctly.

Don't forget we are under a Mercury Rx in this horary; details are missing and analysis is off quite a bit!

Clinton Garrett Soule
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, if this is so and I understood "the first part" correctly, then tell me how do we ever get perfection(a "yes answer") in job horaries?

Quote:
As I understand in any horary one should be able to see a positive aspect to the lord of the lord of the 4th of the matter if the lord of the matter is aspected well. Lilly did Not use just the lord of the matter's aspects but many indicators in his point system to judge a horary.


Could you elaborate a bit on this, please?
And never mind the Mercury retrograde Smile

Regards,
Goran
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goran,

I asked a horary a few years ago and the lord of the matter was very positive, yet the host of the Horary Forum pointed out why it would Not manifest as I misinterpreted. Now I'm only coming in to get a grip on this and like many I don't claim to totally understand it completely at the moment.

It's like in Anthony Louis's first book he says '..generally the first perfecting aspect with the lord of the matter shows the outcome, around 85% of the time, or like weather forcasting...' After I read more traditional lore, I found obvious misunderstandings of Lilly in Louis's first book of which he now studies more Traditional horary and writes of his early misconceptions.

I think what you are asking is best described via this website under Lilly's point system:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html#liltab

In other words one should Not put all his eggs in one basket thinking that if the Lord of the matter is being perfected by a positive aspect, that they need to look no further; there are many testimonys in a horary of whether it be yea or nay.

Clinton Garrett Soule
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 150

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Gentlemen,

I disagree with the analysis of the fourth being the indicator of the outcome, as I recently read Lilly's work for the first time and there is certainly a far reaching part regarding the use of the fourth. But he uses it as a means to the end to reach a positive outcome to the matter. Fourth from the 10th is never talked about.

Besides there are SO many other positive indicators, in my opinion, suggesting a yes verdict, that they in order would certainly over ride the negatives. However, clinton may be proven correct, I acknowledge.

I will certainly update this thread, but as of right now, other than several other invitations to interview, the one position I asked about has not responded.
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rookie wrote:
Quote:
Fourth from the 10th is never talked about.

Exactly; I've never found this to be of any importance in judging horary either. 4th from the 10th is always the ascendant - this 'teaching' certainly makes no sense! The radical 4th is another pair of shoes; it indicates the end of the matter inquired about, and that is the question of getting the job.
Venus disposes Saturn - she is combust in the 12th(not good) and Saturn himself makes no aspects(logical, he is the slowest planet) nor is he applied to, so we have to examine the Moon and its applications.
Moon's first application is with Mars, and this is(almost) all we need to judge this horary.

Regards,
Goran
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 150

Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moon's first application is with Mars, and this is(almost) all we need to judge this horary.

Not sure that is true either, but then this is MY horary, however, Lilly speaks of the next two aspects that the moon makes, leaving Moon Trine with Saturn, next. Mars in it's debilitated state simply shows something interfering.

Again, I will update as appropriate!
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 150

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update.....Didn't get the position
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janeg



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 98

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, sorry to hear that Rookie. I guess Mars was denying Sad Hope Jupiter will smile on your next opportunity.
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx for the update Rookie. Alongside Mars, the Moon was in the place of Jupiter's detriment. That shows Jupiter denying reception and virtue, allowing only intention.
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 509

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that Rookie, hope something better comes of your other applications.

Regards

H.
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update, Rookie.
Sorry you didn't get the job - hope you'll be luckier next time.

Wish you all the best,
Goran
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rookie said:

Quote:
I disagree with the analysis of the fourth being the indicator of the outcome, as I recently read Lilly's work for the first time and there is certainly a far reaching part regarding the use of the fourth. But he uses it as a means to the end to reach a positive outcome to the matter. Fourth from the 10th is never talked about.

Besides there are SO many other positive indicators, in my opinion, suggesting a yes verdict, that they in order would certainly over ride the negatives. However, clinton may be proven correct, I acknowledge.


Radu pointed out, it was brought up in the past 24 hours via this forum on '..a beautiful chart..' by Aglaga, that he used it in analysis of Lilly's 'The Philosopher's Stone':

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/william-lilly/philosopher-stone.php

In the paragraph after the 3rd chart:

"The alchemy, as a divine science of the universe, is represented by the 9th house. The querent hopes to reach the perfection in this art, obtaining the final alchemical target, the Philosopher's Stone, which transforms any common metal into gold. This final target is shown in the turned 4th house (end of things) from the 9th (alchemy), which is the radix 12 house whose cusp is in Leo, ruled by the Sun = gold."

So where does Radu get this? I guess we need to question Radu on his documentation from possible Lilly or Ancients who used the 4th of the matter technique.

It's Not that I'm so egotistical to have to be proven correct; it's the concept of did Traditionalists establish this as a method of finding the outcome of a matter?

Clinton Garrett Soule[/b]
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Clinton Smile

Radu might have got this from Ivy Goldstein - Jacobson
Quote:
In Horary Astrology:
The querent's father.
Property for sale, lease agreements (tenants are shown by the 6th), boundaries, and descriptions of buildings and gardens.
In questions concerning missing persons or lost items, the 4th describes the nature of the surface beneath them and in murder cases can help to describe the location of the body. It is often used to represent the 'end of the matter' and Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson considers the turned 4th from any house to show the conclusion of the business attributed to it (ie., the 3rd house shows the resolution of 12th house matters).
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h4.html
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