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(Other) Divination techniques
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Do you practice any other divination technique besides Astrology?
yes
52%
 52% 
no
30%
 30% 
no, but I used to
8%
 8% 
not currently but I do intend to learn another virtue
8%
 8% 

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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1109

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:58 am    Post subject: (Other) Divination techniques Reply with quote

Hi, everyone!
Over the past year and a half since I have joined this Forum, I have noticed that some members occasionally mention other divination techniques that they practice, use or know a lot about.
I come from a pretty much non-religious family ad a family where no one is or ever was really interested in any predictive, spiritual or any other kind of technique that would offer a better insight into something (anything) that does not belong or apply to the material world. (I'll exclude my aunts who invent their own techniques on daily basis- they're no good influence or example anyway! Very Happy ).
My first meeting with Astrology was "organised" in the Cafe of rational and "normal" thinking as I used to call it back then and only because I was curious to find out what famous mathematicians and Astronomers could have possibly been doing in something so "undefined, esoteric and odd"! I must say that it took me quite awhile to get used to the Astrological approach but it took me even longer to get used to the idea that "answers" of any kind can or could be found by other, non-astrological techniques. Horary Astrology is probably what made me believe or at least assume that such answers could actually be obtained by other techniques only maybe in a bit different shape and form, with different level of accuracy or preciseness to be more..well, precise Smile .
Before I was introduced to the Horary Astrology, unlike the approach offered by Natal Astrology that suggests that the promises of our lives or the promises set in our lifetimes are determined by the time of our birth; the idea that any question could get an answer did seem a bit unbelievable to me. I'm pretty sure that if Horary were my first step in the process of learning Astrology- I would have given up learning it. Initially, i was simply not prepared to this possibility. I must admit that it took me 5 years to open the Second book (part) of Christian Astrology because,after becoming familiar with Natal studies, the idea of delineating charts cast upon specific questions almost seemed like a betrayal (I sound like an orthodox sceptic now, don't I?! Well, I'm just being honest! Smile ) But, after accepting the idea that every question also has its time of birth and after realising that a Horary chart is only another version of birth chart- with an exception that in Horary we make a note of the time of birth of something that is not a person, the idea of other techniques being "functional" did cross my mind for the first time, i must say! Smile I am joking a bit, of course, but, indeed- if a question is determined by the time when it is propounded (or by the time when the "reader" hears and understands it for the first time) than any divination technique should be able to find an adequate answer, more or less precise or straightforward, depending upon the complexity and "philosophy" of the technique used (from what I have learnt, some techniques don't "like" straightforward answers)! There is only one truth and, thus, as long as the approach is well grounded, the technique genuine and "tested" and the reader capable of maneuvering its symbolics, the same answer or at least the same potential promised by what ever it is that we believe causes these influences (the concept of divinity) should come as a result of the reading - it's synchronicity! My close friend who is a very dedicated mathematician with PhD in Maths and Physics has been of some great help here lately as well because he introduced me to the symbolics of numbers, numeric cycles etc. and their application in various traditional predictive techniques with Mayan calendar being one of the most popular ones and offered his view concerning their analogy in Astrology. So, I don't have a problem accepting the whole idea any more but one question is still present in my head- if different divination techniques are only different approaches serving the same goal which, roughly speaking-is finding the "truth" or the answer, recognising influences/promises/potentials etc. then they should all, in the end, come to the same answer if the symbols are read correctly. And if it really is so- then why using more than one technique?
(I am aware that some of you who have spent years reading about different divination methods or even practicing them will probably find my post very naive Laughing and maybe funny but the truth is- the only things I know about other techniques are occasional facts and informations picked from either astrological literature or while reading about other cultures and religions- all, very, very basic knowledge).

So, my questions for everyone who is willing to participate are very simple:
-do you practice any other divination technique (and, of course, which one/s)? and, if you do- why?
Also, an additional question for those of you who do use them is:
-do you switch between astrology and other techniques, use them both, expand your readings that way or search for confirmations (or something else)?

I have basically already answered the question but I can say again that I have never practiced any other technique and have never (ever) asked for a tarot, I-ching or any other kind of reading. (I had never visited an Astrologer before I took up learning astrology either and wasn't at all curious to hear as to what my Natal chart has got to say for quite some time after making my first steps in Astrology! Confused ).
Still, the techniques I am now most familiar with are mainly those that include numbers, mathematical principles etc. But I must add that, so far, I have mainly been interested in finding out as to how similar they are to astrology and how these techniques approach questions that we usually meet with in Astrology.

I'd really like to hear your answers and, of course, the only reason for asking this is because I am curious to learn more about your personal attitudes, thoughts and points of view regardless of whether you or I belong to the mainstream when it comes to this or not ! I have shared my "history" with you but my intention was, by no means, to sound disrepectful of other divination techniques- my quetsion was triggred by pure curiosity and wish to learn other Astrologers' "habbits" better!
Thanks and cheers!


aglaya


Last edited by aglaya on Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:12 pm; edited 5 times in total
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amelia



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 348
Location: Wales

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting question.

I have been serious about astrology since the early 90s. In the early years I dabbled in other divination; tarot, i-ching, graphology and reading entrails (*). But I never studied any of them seriously - it was more for fun and entertainment; though, I did have considerable sucess with tarot- even though I did not know what I was doing.

I approached astrology more academically, studying, doing courses etc etc. That is because I am a bit of a scientist at heart and like the mathematical logic, replicity and continuity of astrology which the other methods don't have.

Once I discovered the horary branch of astrology I really didn't bother with any of the other types of divination any more. Tarot and i-ching are ideal for quick answers to questions, but, as you say, horary is richer- giving timing indicators etc.

I think the answer is it depends on who you are ( which of course depends on one's birthchart Laughing ). Some astrologers don't really do any predicting at all - just personality analysis, I imagine they generally wouldn't use any other methods of divination either. Some, I suppose the more medianistic types, would resonate to the idea of communing with the universe more than they do with any one method and would use more than one technique. Some may offer a "product mix" for clients and I suspect there are astrologers who use tarot to answer clients questions because it is easier to explain picture cards to a lay-person that a chart and the visual matters for many people - I don't do personal work so that is not an issue for me.

Hope that is useful.

(*the last is a joke, scorpionic humour, sorry)
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've written a lot on Lenormand cards as there isn't much information about them in English. And I always keep a packet of those in my handbag for 'divination emergencies', as well as some divining stones a friend made for me.

I have a few other offbeat oracles like that, too - they're interesting, and while they usually don't give as much precision as horary, they do answer questions pretty well. Also useful for quickie readings.
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epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never got into tarot, but not for lack of trying. I've been studying geomancy lately. I wanted something to supplement astrology.
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a horary chart presents too much of a problem, I use tarot cards as a back-up. Not as a replacement, but as extension of the horary (so, I assign temperament and planetary rulers to the cards in order to make this easier).

The way I do it is not very respectable I guess...
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1360

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use horary and tarot. I also have some knowledge of I ching (the chinese, not the american one), but I rather be skillful in one or two methods than be a "jack of all trades" and master of none.

I use them depending on the question, availability and general humor on the day.
_________________
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still getting over my tarot allergy. I do actually have a degree in it (that's scary, and not something I put on the résumé), but ended up teaching it for a school that had a GD bent for several years - which is cool, I'm not a GDer and it's kind of the long way around, but you can still get there from here, and then it went all psychological and preaching to the wealthy and worried well.

The line drawings of the RWS are burnt into my brain at this point, and I have a really nice RWS deck (the Illuminated one that Carol Herzer painted), but I just can't do it.

Fortunately I can still use my Vacchetta (an artistic re-rendering of the Marseille done in the 1880s, if memory serves) and the Fantastic Menagerie, which is based on JJ Grandville's lithographs. Grandville actually made a couple of sibilla decks himself, but had to sign over the copyright to his uncle, Mansion, in exchange for room and board, when he was just starting as an artist.

If you like Grandville, the Parlour Sibyl is still in print and there are several decks that include his Fleurs Animées drawings - the Victorian Flower Oracle if you want big and flashy, and also a set of playing cards from Lo Scarabeo that has more of the drawings - and is a bit more portable.

Some of Grandville's flowers can be found here. Some of his other drawings are here.

Enjoy!
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Lunlumo



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 260
Location: Münster, Germany

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:


I use them depending on the question, availability and general humor on the day.

Don't you think that divination is much too serious a matter as to be left open to personal "humours of the day"?
And let me add that the I Ching differs from most other divination techniques fundamentally. It's purpose has never been to state what is probably ging to happen but what actions should or should not be taken in a specific situation.
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And just for the sheer enjoyment of it (everybody was writing stories to go with Grandville's drawings, from Victor Hugo to Théophile Gautier), there's an English translation (with pictures) of Les Fleurs Animées here.

Granted, it's not technically divination, but it is utterly delightful.
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1109

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm following the thread, it's very interesting to read all this this.

Olivia, I have never heard of the Victorian Flower Oracle (and, yes, i enjoyed looking at those drawings- they're so delicate and lovely).

I remember reading about "personal" tarot cards - I do not know how it functions (time of birth?) or if it actually exists- but, in case it does, could it be done with this deck as well? I'm a passionate plant grower and adore flowers, i would love to know which one of these is mine. Very Happy
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dr. farr



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My background is with the Tarot (ever since 1964!) I have taught Tarot to my "underground" students (approx. 1 year "course"-Monday nights for 2 hour classes) However, I personally use Tarot only for rare, major divinations (although it can be effectively applied for more frequent, ordinary questions) I never use it for therapeutic questions, always preferring astro-therapeutic analysis (horary, progressed natal, profected natal, decumbiture, diurnal, or personal ingress methods)

I have also occasionally applied Geomancy (Stephen Skinner's book on the subject is the best in English); I have exclusively used Gerard of Cremona's astrologically based method (which he referred to as "Astronomical Geomancy") Note that his rules were originally applied to judgement of horary questions using regular (celestial astrological) horary charts, which he applied to Geomancy: his horary rules are excellent for regular horary use (they date from the 13th Century) and I personally prefer them to Cardan, Sahl, even Lilly! The Gerard material is linked to the Skyscript website: I direct your attention to it, not only relative to Geomancy but more especially relative to regular horary.
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aglaya wrote:
I'm following the thread, it's very interesting to read all this this.

Olivia, I have never heard of the Victorian Flower Oracle (and, yes, i enjoyed looking at those drawings- they're so delicate and lovely).

I remember reading about "personal" tarot cards - I do not know how it functions (time of birth?) or if it actually exists- but, in case it does, could it be done with this deck as well? I'm a passionate plant grower and adore flowers, i would love to know which one of these is mine. Very Happy


You may be in luck then - the people who designed both the Flower Oracle and the Fantastic Menagerie (the one based on Grandville's other lthographs) are in Prague - it's Magic Realist Press. They also sell a little Czech oracle which is sort of like Zigeuner (sp?) cards, if you've ever seen those - three or four euros, if memory serves. They do have a web site, and I think they've got pictures of all the decks up there, and you can mail-order.

I don't like every single deck they've done, but I can't quibble with the concept or the artwork - they're an amazing design team, and they've managed not to ruin the art they took their decks from - and amazingly, the decks do work!
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James E.



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: (Other) Divination techniques Reply with quote

aglaya wrote:
So, my questions for everyone who is willing to participate are very simple:
-do you practice any other divination technique (and, of course, which one/s)? and, if you do- why?
Also, an additional question for those of you who do use them is:
-do you switch between astrology and other techniques, use them both, expand your readings that way or search for confirmations (or something else)?


I practice other divinations techniques than astrology:

As far as cards are concerned I mainly use the Waite-Smith Tarot deck [aka Rider-Waite] and the Oracle Belline, a set of 52 cards, 49 of which are ruled by the traditional planets; I do not carry these cards around so if I am asked for a reading while outside my home or office I will use a standard deck of cards (Spades equal the Swords in Tarot, Hearts = Cups, Diamonds = Pentacles and Clubs = Wands) or use a system of numerology to answer questions that do not require the use of a more elaborate tool. This system uses the 22 major arcanas of Tarot and their astrological correspondances [many of which have been devised by Crowley] and also uses the birthdate as background info. Sometimes during a card reading I will use numerology to get more info on a topic.

Methods used with cards are basic:
- a monthly reading that uses 28 cards, 7 for each week (either Belline or Minor arcana of Tarot)
- a yearly reading using the complete Tarot deck distributed in the 12 houses symbolism.

I do not use cards to expand on or search for confirmations from astrology; I mainly use cards when there is no birth hour available or when clients ask for them. I also work with Crowley's deck for personal growth and development. As for numerology, it was convenient when I did radio or tv shows and I still use it for "on the fly" consultations. I occasionally give Tarot/numerology courses, but my main occupation besides consultation is giving astrology classes and workshops.

james
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Lunlumo



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 260
Location: Münster, Germany

Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that's been on my mind for quite a while:
It concerns the Waite-Smith Tarot deck - popular. For the majority of people coming into contact with the Tarot it's THE deck (although I do not think that these cards are a work of great art) - and often these people are unaware of the fact that there are further (actually hundreds ) of partly rather different card decks.
Unlike all (?) of the decks the W.S-Tarot (by the way: it's just become 100 years old!) illustrates all the cards -not only the 22 Arcana cards. This certainly was an act of interpretation. A great number of people (including myself) can't imagine (e.g.) the nine of swords without immediately imagining the nine swords dangerously hovering about that woman obviously in deep desperation.
Now: was the illustration of Ms Smith possibly an act of total subjective interpretation? An interpretation that finally created certain standards that we stick to? Did she in a way actually create the minor arcana - and parts of the major arcana too - e.g. card VI - by the way a most subjective (possibly doubtful) way of interpretation. Was it her that actually formulated the meaning of that card - and of many other ones? How much autonomy is included there?
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dr. farr



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pamela Coleman Smith, an English artist with connections to Waite's (Rosicrucian) esoteric lodge, drew the images of both the Major and the Minor Arcana according to Waite's specific criteria regarding the symbols involved. Waite's symbolism in turn represents a mixture of Rosicrucian and Hermetic concepts significantly influenced by the Golden Dawn, of which Society Waite was a long-time member (he later formed his own mystical Christianity oriented Rosicrucian lodge)

The characteristic outlines of the symbols represented on the Major Arcana cards in the Rider-Waite deck have their origins in Tarot decks dating to the early 1700's (at the latest).
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