Do you practice any other divination technique besides Astrology?

yes
Total votes: 12 (52%)
no
Total votes: 7 (30%)
no, but I used to
Total votes: 2 (9%)
not currently but I do intend to learn another virtue
Total votes: 2 (9%)
Total votes: 23

16
Thanks. I didn't know about the Rosicrucian background of that deck. But I immediately felt that there are definite parallels.
Apart from that there exists a Golden Dawn Tarot deck which bears hardly any resemblance to the Waite/Smith-deck. Quite different - with no illustration of the minor arcana. As far as I can see (or feel) the W/S deck is much closer to the Rosicrucian tradition than the one of the Golden Dawn. nevertehless the G.D.deck is most remarkable:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/go ... ndex.shtml

Strange fact that the greater part of astrologers use additional divination techniques. Might be interesting to know why. Insufficiency of astrological evidence ?

17
The Golden Dawn Tarot deck originated in the 1980's, symbolisms used were taken from Golden Dawn teachings as understood by the deck's designer (Robert Wang, assisted by the late Israel Regaride). However, in stating this I am not implying inferiority of this modern deck in any sense.
Last edited by dr. farr on Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

19
Olivia is correct about the first Golden Dawn temple deck: however, this deck never moved outside temple doors, and was not published for general distribution. It's Major Arcana outlines are very similar to those of the Marseilles Tarot.

21
Interesting question and answers too. I hadn't appreciated there were so many astrologers using Tarot here.

My longest association is with the I Ching which I have used for approaching 25 years ( I started very young!). I have also worked with Tarot and Runes. Yet to try out Geomancy but the recommendations here seem worth following up. Personally, I think working with different systems can lead to interesting cross fertilisation of ideas.

Lately my interest in Tarot has blossomed ( its tends to wax and wane a bit) and I have been very interested in studying the astrological links to the Major and Minor Arcana.

In the English speaking world many Tarotists adopt the Golden Dawn or Aleister Crowley approach to the astrological associations of the Major and Minor Arcana. Personally though I have many personal problems with that approach. Regarding the Major Arcana its interesting that Anthony Louis cites a competing Latin American system of astrological associations in his book Tarot: Plain and Simple. I guess that might be coming from sources like Eliphas Levi and Papus. However, the approach I find closest to my own thinking is that of Joanna Watters in her book on Tarot.

Actually there are a number of controversial but thought provoking discussions on the astrological associations of the Major and Minor Arcana.
In particular:

1 The Astrological associations of the Major Arcana by Planet, sign or element

2 The elemental association of the suits. The GD assigned Swords to Air and Wands to Fire but many Tarot packs reverse these associations. A beautiful example of this latter approach is Nigel Jackson's 'Medieval Enchantment' deck.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/ni ... ndex.shtml

Any views from members here?

3 The Modality of the Court Cards. In particular Knight/Queen/King. A common approach is Knight=mutable/Queen=fixed/King=Cardinal. However one often sees this approach reversed with the Knights cardinal and the Kings mutable.

Another topic that I am planning to research more is the pre- GD meanings for the Minor Arcana 'pip' cards. Pamela Coleman Smith's artwork ( or its inumerable later variants) is ingrained in many Tarotists minds. I would appreciate any thoughts or leads from other members who have already explored this issue.

I suspect the answers lie outside the English speaking tradition as the GD/Waite-Smith deck approach of figured pip cards has been such a resounding success it has largely swept prior tradtition before it.
I am therefore interested in continental Tarot card divinatory associations based on older decks such as the Tarot of Marseilles or IJJ Swiss.

A good start I think is reading older non-English sources such as Levi, Papus and Wirth. However, sometimes the astrological links seem quite strange. For example Levi's system assigned astrological associations to the Major Arcana only after first linking cards through the Qaballah and Tree of Life symbolism. This leads to some quite bizarre linkages from an astrological perspective.

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

22
Mark,

I'd recommend Mystical Origins of the Tarot: From Ancient Roots to Modern Usage by Paul Huson, for some pre-GD tarot associations. Pretty interesting book.

23
Hi GR,

Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes I was checking out that book on Amazon just last night! It does look invaluable for people like myself that want to gain a clearer understanding of Tarot history. Its definitely on my click list.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

24
Ron Decker's History of the Occult Tarot is another good one, and Robert Place has a book out on Tarot, mostly concentrating on the RWS and making a strong argument for neo-Platonism.

Jean-Michel David occasionally does a correspondence class on the Marseille deck - he's in Australia. Fascinating stuff, like was the Empress originally a portrait of Isabella? That kind of thing. As well as a lot of neat historical facts surrounding the creation of the Marseille.

I don't believe there was any original astrological assignment to tarot - it was a Christian card game, also used to create poetry (there may be a Petrarch link in there). I used to have a repro of the Visconti, which I adored, but that got lost. It's still available and worth your while if you're into historical tarot.

I'm pretty sure that Eteilla was the first to come up with astrological assignments for tarot cards. There are some pretty good articles at Villa Revak on that, and how much the GD followed him, even though Waite claimed not to. http://villarevak.org/astro/main.html

25
Ron Decker's History of the Occult Tarot is another good one, and Robert Place has a book out on Tarot, mostly concentrating on the RWS and making a strong argument for neo-Platonism.
Thanks Olivia,

I also fancy getting Nigel Jackson's deck referred to above along with his accompanying book which is almost 150 pages long. I am sure Nigel's views are worth reading. Unfortunately, the deck/book are already out of print and quite expensive in the second hand market. I certainly plan to get some tradtitional pre-GD decks.
I used to have a repro of the Visconti, which I adored, but that got lost. It's still available and worth your while if you're into historical tarot.
Yes the Restored Visconti-Sforza deck which is now available is definitely on my list.
I don't believe there was any original astrological assignment to tarot - it was a Christian card game, also used to create poetry.
That sounds plausible although I think the Tarot has had multiple uses for a long time. I suppose we can all see it through our own chosen philosphical prism whether its astrology, numerology, or Qaballah. The Tarot seems almost inexhaustable on that account.
I'm pretty sure that Eteilla was the first to come up with astrological assignments for tarot cards
Yes it seems so.

My persoal interest is that I am trying to develop a system of astrological dignities. There is no denying that the the GD system is ingenious. However, it just feels too rigid to me and doesn't allow enough space for intuition to flow. Assigning the decans to the 'pip' card was inventive but is feels far too prescriptive and over rational to me. I am happy enough to work with the basic suits and the numerology of the pips. When it comes to the Major Arcana I find the GD associations quite forced and artificial at times. I prefer to link these cards to the 7 traditional planets.

Do you use dignities much yourself in readings?
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

26
+Possibly the first book (since Etteilla's 1785 "Maniere..") to elaborate correspondences between Tarot and astrology was A.E. Thierens "General Book of the Tarot", first published in the second decade of the 20th Century (originally in Dutch), the card-symbolism used based upon the Waite deck. This book is still available (Amazon, etc) although it is rarely mentioned (or referenced) in modern Tarot literature. (Note: Thierens also wrote a number of highly interesting-though primarily esoterically oriented-astrology books as well-some of these, in English, are still available on Amazon and AbeBooks; Thierens was the head of a Dutch astrological society for several decades prior to his death in-I believe-the 1940's)

+Etteilla was the first authority to proclaim "The Book of Thoth" as the real title of the Tarot cards (predating Crowley in this terminology by over 110 years)

+Relative to astrological connections with non-Tarot cartomancy, two of our "own" wrote books on the subject in the early 20th Century:
-E.H. (Pre-Natal Epoch) Bailey, "Astrology and the Cards"
-Sepharial (!!), "Fortune Telling by Cards"
(Both of these books are available on Amazon and AbeBooks)

Kabbalistic ("Tree of Life") correspondences of signs and planets (to "sephiroth", "paths" and "worlds") date from the "Sepher Yetzirah" (Book of Formation), circa 1st-3rd Century C.E. (the original kabbalistic works-"The Bahir" and the "Sepher Yetzirah"-flow from the same Alexandrian gnosis as {Western} alchemy and astrology) Somewhat altered astrological correspondences are to be found in a later (6th-9th Century) kabbalistic work entitled "Aesch Mezeraph" (Purifying Fire)
Eliphas Levi, the Golden Dawn, and other Hermetic Kabbalists have made certain alterations to several of the original "Sepher Yetzirah" astrological correspondences, in accordance with their own spiritual (and experiential) insights. (Note: another spelling is "Sefer Yetzirah", and an alternative translation of the title is "Book of Creation")