2009-2016: Septar 59th of the Great Conj. 1603

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When it comes to have a view of a period of time I prefer to be faithful to astrological traditions: That means I prefer the Great Conjunction (SAT/JUP). As we all know there?s a hierarchy: There are so-called ?minimae? (such as the one of May 28th, 2000) and ?maximae? ? the last one being the conj. of Dec. 31st, 1980. But the one reigning them all is the Great Conjunction that took place on Dec 18th, 1603, 6:55 GT ? first entry of the ?Wandering Geat Trigon? into the cycle of fire. This chart has been exerting ist influence ever since, and it will be doing so for about four more centuries to come. Like any mundane chart it may be referred to any place on earth.
According to the Munich School of Astrology (founded by Wolfgang D?bereiner) a solar can be regarded not only as a chart for the year to come. It can also give a deeper insight into the time of seven years. Such a seven-year-chart is called a ?Septar?.
How it works: The birth chart is the chart for the lifetime but it is also the first septar ? standing fort he first seven years. First solar after birth (on first birthday) = second Septar: 7-14 years. Third solar based on second birthday = septar III: 14-21 etc. - E.g. Someone was born in 1950. He?s now in his ninth seven-year-span, his or her ninth septar. This is the septar based on the solar return of the year 1958 (not 1959!!)
It always works (Septars are very well known in Germany, Austria and Switzerland). Try it using whatever chart you like.

Now, going back to the chart of the Great Conjunction of 1603. When trying to get a closer look at the inner structures of the present and forthcoming events one may certainly refer to sec.progressions of that chart, not to mention transits. But by making use of the septars one gets a chart standing for the time from Dec. 18 2009 to Dec. 18 2016. This septar is based on the solar chart of the year 1661.

The Great Conjunction: 18.12.1603, 6:55 GMT
Solar 1661/1662 : Dec 17th, 1661. 8:58 GMT

Refer the chart to London. You get NE/MER conj. AC there ? and this is even more precise when you refer it to the Channel (Calais-Dover).
Now, what happened only two or three days after this septar took effect? The total breakdown of the trains while passing the Channel ? underground? MER/NE ..
Isn?t this a convincing proof for the validity of that chart?
It may certainly be referred to any place on earth. And it deserves being studied with utmost care. It will have a lot to say about what will soon happen.
(I for whatever reason do not manage to insert a chart here? sorry?)

Regards
LL

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Thank you, Lunlumo. :'

I am not familiar with this technique. When I first started reading you post I wondered whether it more correctly belonged under the Techniques section, and then I thought it belonged under Nativities and General Astrology. Having got to the end I think that your reasons for placing it here are justified.

Event: Breakdown of trains in Channel Tunnel
Date: 18 Dec 2009
Basis chart: Great Conjuntion Jupiter/Saturn 18 Dec 1603
Return chart: Septar 59th, 18 Dec 2009 (unfamiliar technique)
Indicator: Neptune/Mercury conjunction on asc of locality

There are lots of avenues that could be explored here and need explaining. The Neptune/Mercury conjunction meaning the mere failure of communications? I welcome a presentation of the chart for the Great Conjunction 1603. Maybe also a few other historical highlights that could encourage the research and participation of other Skyscript members. I suppose you were rather over-whelmed by the fact that the Channel Tunnel trains collapse on the very day of the return you mention. That is probably not the rule? Do I then understand you correct in that you may use the Astro*Cartography mapping to detect thoe areas under exposiure.

It might be a good idea to confer with Deb before introducing the Septar to either the Navities or Techniques section. However, the Mundane section is certainly open to look at Grand Conjunctions, Astrological Cycles and Mundane specifics. Thank you.
http://www.astronor.com

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Thanks for responding, Andrew
Andrew Bevan wrote: Return chart: Septar 59th, 18 Dec 2009 (unfamiliar technique)
In order to avoid misunderstandings: It's the solar of Dec. 1661, which can also be regarded as a chart for the time from Dec. 2009 until Dec. 2016.
Indeed, I didn't really know where to place it. It is not a traditional technique, so I could not place it there.
It is true that the septar mentioned above took effect immediately. This did not necessarily have to be the case. It might have been due to the fact with respect to the locality which I mentioned - MER/NE are in exact conjunction with the AC - and that often means action "right away".

However, the real impact of this constellation will be felt in the forthcoming years. And it will certainly not be confined to the traffic to and from London. MERC/NE conj. AC will be felt in London as well, and it may have to do with a great part of the technical infrastructure of London in particular and GB in general. Apart from that MER/NE can also result in inflation - which would not be a real surprise considering what's been going on over the past months (finance, credits, DEBTS...).

I have studied the Great Conjunction for about twenty-five years, among them the "great Great" conjunction of 1603 - and I could no longer do without the septars.
(By the way there's much more to it - one might also "enhance" a septar, using 49 years for a solar (7 times 7 = 49) . This is most helpful when one deals with epochs and gradual changes taking place over the decades. With respect to the Great Conjunction of 1603 one might consequently take the Solar for Dec. 1611 which is actually the ninth septar. Being a septar this chart reflects the time from 56 to 63 - in this case the years Dec. 1659 to Dec. 1666. In "augmentation" (7*7) it takes effect anew in the time from Dec 1995 till Dec. 2044.
Of course, as I said, the 9th Septar in the first place refers to the years 1659 till 1666. Thus the great London fire of Sept. 1666 should be clearly be seen in that septar - it most certainly does, as can easily be proved (Septar 9. Dec. 18, 1611, 5:46 GMT).

(I do not really know whether "augmentation" is the right term to use. In music it means the lengthening of a theme - quite common in fugues. This, by the way, might be a helpful analogy for the intricate structures of time and their realizations...)

Hoping I didn't bring about too much confusion :-)
Regards
LL

"Tradition"

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This is most interesting - it'll take some time to relly understand it. Thank you.

What you wrote:
"Personally, if your going to be faithful to tradition then this is not "traditional" with regards to mundane astrology. If this were true then there would be no need to cast a chart at the revolutions of the world-years! All we would need to do is cast one every 7 years. "

I'm afraid the concept of the septars has not been really understood ( ? - if it has - "sorry")


As to "tradition":
It has been known for centuries that the number Seven is the key to the dynamics of time. Among others D.Rudhyar dealt with the rhythms based on that number. The Great Conjunctions, too, have been given attention for centuries - there's no need to go into detail - "tradition".

The septars I mentioned are based on the Seven, however, they were not detected (if I may say so) until the mid-Fifties (by W.D?bereiner). So they can hardly be called "traditional".

I may have fallen between two chairs - on the one side the septar-"technique", on the other side the septars derived from the 1603-conjunction. Actually what I intended was to draw the attention to the chart dealing with the years 2009-2016 (see above).

It is certainly most interesting (and rewarding too, I see) when one takes into account the sequence of the planets as described in your posting.
The septars differ inasmuch they yield horoscopes of their own (although, of course, like solars, they certainly correspond with the basic chart).

Well, anyway lots of new stuff, I see....

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The above (interesting) discussions remind me of the Vedic dasa concepts and techniques, as well as the Hellenistic time lord concepts. The Chinese make great use of Jupiter/Saturn in their system of time cycles/astrology.
In certain medieval (Western) magickal practices the septenary basis for utilizing astrological connections is also elaborated. Regardless of whether or not the particular technique of the "septars" described above is 'traditonal", the fact is that the concept behind it is pretty much one of the most ancient to be found!

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dr. farr wrote: Regardless of whether or not the particular technique of the "septars" described above is 'traditonal", the fact is that the concept behind it is pretty much one of the most ancient to be found!
I can only agree! As I mentioned somewhere above the septars were "detected", not invented. Also, the principle if "augmentation" (don't know if this term is really appropriate...) is rooted in tradition - e.g. secondary and tertiary progressions are augmentations. But as far as I remember the number seven had never been the basis of augmentation before W.D?bereiner did so (in the early Fifties). Anyway, the septars "work", and their value can hardly be overestimated - in whatever charts you may use, both mundane or individual.
I mentioned the present septar (59th) of the Great Conj. of Dec.1603: when referred to Teheran what you get is AC 3 degrees Aries (with the southern node on it), MC 2-3 degrees Capricorn. As may be seen from this example transits over the septars should be taken into account: at present Pluto is conj MC of that septar - and everybody knows what's going on there.
I certainly do NOT mean that the Great Conjunction may or should replace the charts of states. These are certainly the ones to be prefered
- provided there are any (see the endless discussion as to the "right" US-chart). The Great Conjunctions are helpful in case of absence of a state chart. Moreover they also show the mundane context of seemingly individual items and events.
In the case of Iran there is a state chart: April 1st, 1979, 15:00 local time.
The present septar to be taken is the fifth (2007-2014), based on the year 1983. What you get is SAT/PL conj IC with MA opposing - the chart is worth looking at in detail.
Regards
LL
LL

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While I have to agree with Steven that the Septar-technique is not traditional astrology in the way we understand it, Lunlumo, I think that if you have studied this matter for over 25 years and it has been around for over 50, then your interest for and observation within mundane astrology justifies your reasons for mentioning it here. I was intrigued by the fact that you were working with the chart of the Great Conjunction of 1603 and your contribution offers an opportunity to involve in the topic and brush up on the traditions of mundane astrology that Steven invaluably has added.

Lunlumo makes no unrightful claims in his initial post and tells us where he is coming from in an orderly manner. I believe that discussions on the charts of ingresses and great conjunctions should be given place in this section at the forum. However, to clarify one matter, is it the Mercury - Neptune midpoint in a return chart of 18 Dec 2009 that is on the ascendant of the locality of Channel Tunnel, or is there a conjunction between Mercury and Neptune in the chart of the Great Conjunction of 1603 that is moved to the ascendant in a return chart?
http://www.astronor.com

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Thank you for your kind words!
Andrew Bevan wrote:While I have to agree with Steven that the Septar-technique is not traditional astrology in the way we understand it, ...
Which is why I did not place it into the forum dealing primarily with ancient techniques.

Nota bene: Over the years I've become quite familiar with the Great Conjunctions, true. But the fact that I've been studying them for quite a while does - of course - not necessarily mean that I have become some kind of an expert. Far from that - these conjunctions present lots of enigmatic results. So far it has not been really made clear in which way they interact over the centuries, in the long course of time. These are very complex textures. The rhythms underlying the Great Trine (the movement of the Great Conjunctions backwards in the zodiac) are at times regular, at times (seemingly) irregular.

As to the question concerning MER/NEP in the septar:
The AC of septar 59 (17.12.1661 // 8:58 GMT) when referred to the Channel (halfway between Calais and Dover) is at 10 degrees Capricorn conjunct NE (precise), MER is at 8 degrees. (It is not a direction or progression.)
Of course one may (or even should ) study the chart with respect to any links with the chart of the Great Conj. 1603, its mother chart. E.g. it migth be noteworthy to find that the MC/IC-axis of the septar when referred to the Channel is conj. the UR/southern node - conjunction in the 1603 chart. (This more or less applies to both London and Paris as well.) And it might also be important that NE in the septar is conj. the Sun of the chart of GB (1.1.1801) - around ten degrees Capr.
In a few years' time Pluto will be there, hand in hand with UR (square).
By the way: dozens, if not hundreds of institutions, states, laws... came into being on a Jan 1st. They will all share their encounter with Pluto- somewhat disquieting, isn't it? -

Regards
LL

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I am posting the two charts, just so we can see what we are talking about:

The Grand conjunction 18 Dec 1603
Image
The Solar Return of 17 Dec 1661
This is what Lunlumo labels as the 59th Septar, with the suggestion of each return maps a 7 year period, and that the return of 17 Dec 1661 has significance for a 7 year period commencing on 17-18 Dec 2009.
Image
Please drop me a line if the calculations are in any way inaccurate. I certainly find it interesting to take a peak at what this is all about.
http://www.astronor.com

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Thanks!
The horoscopes are ok - although the dates for JU and SAT given in the 1603 chart are not quite identical. They are, however, identical for the time given (6:55 GMT) in my programme and - probbably more important - in the astrodienst calculations. Anyway - AC and MC are precise.
Regards,
LL

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Strange, but common cases of coincidence: The last Full Moon, which was an eclipse, was at ten degrees CAPR/CAN. So it was conjunct NE in the septar given above, and conj. Sun/GB.
- You may be wondering what actually was my topic- the Grand Conjunction of 1603 or the septars? Maybe I shouldn't have mixed the two of them (?).

Some words concerning the 1603 conj.:
The degree of SAT/JU is 8 SAG - this is (for all I know) the degree of the US-chart (well, I know there are at leat ten different charts that have been suggested..) But it is certain that the conjunction of Dec 1603 is some kind of a birth chart for the USA - just two or three years after the conjunction took place the settlement of the north American east coast started.
The chart is "valid" for about 800 years- so we presently have reached the point of "half time" - most significantly, I'd say: in a way it's both the climax and crisis of Anglo-American culture - which is increasingly confronted with challenges never dreamt of before (see among others today's news - escalation of "fight against terrorism" - part of the eclipse mentioned above).
Regards
LL