I'm by no means a newbie, but for some reason I get confused with how to tell if Venus (or any planet I suppose) is making a superior or inferior conjunction. Deb mentioned in another thread an article was coming out about Venus' symbolism and it made me think of this.

What do I look for?

In traditional terms, the superior conjunction occurs when Venus is at apogee - its highest (ie, superior) position above the Earth within its own cycle. This occurs when Venus is on the other side of the Sun. The inferior conjunction occurs when Venus is at the lowest point in its own cycle, when it is closest to Earth (so between the Earth and the Sun). It is traditionally termed inferior because it is at its lowest position.

At the superior conjunction Venus is high in its cycle, direct in motion and moving swiftly. It is traditionally conceived as being closer to the purer realms of heaven, so its influence is then assumed to be most subtle and soul-like.

At the inferior conjunction Venus is low in its circle, retrograde and slow in motion. Being closest to the Earth and lingering in its effects it has its strongest influence over mundane things, but its virtue is then tainted with baser influences and inferior passions (jealousy, lust, etc).

Hope this helps - this is all traditionally speaking, of course.

Deb

Mithra6 wrote:I'm by no means a newbie, but for some reason I get confused with how to tell if Venus (or any planet I suppose) is making a superior or inferior conjunction. Deb mentioned in another thread an article was coming out about Venus' symbolism and it made me think of this.

What do I look for?

As Deborah told you Venus (or Mercury )at superior conjunction is direct, while at inferior is retrograde.

Obviously Mars, Jupiter and Saturn don't have a retrograde conjuction, they go to the opposition with the Sun.

I don't agree with Deborah that Venus is slow when it is at inferior conjuction, I was taught in Bezza'association, CieloeTerra, that planets with the Sun are always fast.

If it can be of help, just a week ago I wrote in my blog a post about phases of planets- both inner and outer- because phases were very important in traditional astrology, especially in Renaissance because the use of phases is mostly in Ptolemy, and so obviously his commentators - Cardano, Naibod, the same Lilly- followed him.

In CieloeTerra they are very attentive to point which phase a planet is in order to judge a chart because Ptolemy mentions them almost in every chapter of Tetrabiblos.

This is the link to my article,

http://heavenastrolabe.net/the-sun-and- ... e-planets/

with a picture from Valentin Naibod's comment to Tetrabiblos "Ennaratio elementorum astrologiae"

In order to understand which phase a planet is, you can use the free software PLSV- planetary, lunar, stellar, visibility

http://www.alcyone-ephemeris.info/plsv_ ... ption.html

you can change date and place and the software will tell if the planet is visible or not, when it will do its heliacal rising and settings.

margherita

Hi Margherita

I don't agree with Deborah that Venus is slow when it is at inferior conjuction, I was taught in Bezza'association, CieloeTerra, that planets with the Sun are always fast.

This principle holds with the other planets, but with the inferiors the planetary motion is only fast at superior conjunction - it is slow around the inferior conjunction, the phase of the cycle during which they station and experience retrograde motion. But it is easy to check this for yourself by reference to astrology software or an ephemeris.

In general it is as you say - conjunction with the Sun is believed to 'activate' the planetary energies, and increasing distance from the Sun leads to a corresponding decline in speed. But remember that although the inferior planets are aligned with the Sun at both superior and inferior conjunction, in the Ptolemaic worldview they are closest to the Sun when high in their circles at superior conjunction, and at their furthest distance from the Sun when they are low in their circles at inferior conjunction. Hence the principle is consistent, even in this situation, and this adds another reason why the superior conjunction is traditionally so much more important than the inferior conjunction.

Regards
Deb

Thanks everyone. I knew it was simple, but I didn't realize it was that simple!

Hello again, Deborah

Deb wrote:
This principle holds with the other planets, but with the inferiors the planetary motion is only fast at superior conjunction - it is slow around the inferior conjunction, the phase of the cycle during which they station and experience retrograde motion. But it is easy to check this for yourself by reference to astrology software or an ephemeris.

this is no what Bezza teaches. I'm sure because I checked in my notes.

Anyway it's not important, if we can know from some software which phase the planet is.
I say because in my course, the first thing Giancarlo asks to his students "which phase is this planet? "
Speed can help just if we don't know this,

Have a wonderful new year,
margherita

Hello Steven,

However when they are occidental and direct after their superior conjunction they tend to indicate their own natures more readily and combine them with another slower planet to which they may be joined. I've noticed this very strongly when working with and delineating professions for example.

Again this is not I learned in CieloeTerra group.
The most favourable phase for inner planets, Mercury and Venus, is the vespertine phase, especially the vespertine heliacal rising.

On the other hand outer planets are stronger when oriental.

Professions and trades is a case where Ptolemy mentions phases, because the significator of trade is the planet which is not invible and in heliacal rising - but as you remember significators of trade can be just Venus, Mercury and Mars.
So we will prefer a vespertine Mercury or Venus, or an oriental Mars, being careful they are visible.

As Cardano said in his comment- in fact- invisible planets cannot do activity, but inclination,

-------------------------------------------

Added later:

oops, I was too much quick in reading your post. It seems we agree, I'm happy, i hate when I study differently from others

have a nice new year,
margherita

Hi Margherita

What you are being taught is a mystery to me, but by all means check the details for yourself. Here is some info from the current cycle:

Venus experiences superior conjunction on Jan 11th 2010. Her movement over 24 hours is then 1?15 - so she is moving swiftly.

The next inferior conjunction is on 29th October 2010. Her movement over 24 hours is then 0?36 (retro) - so she is moving slowly.

It will be similar in every cycle. For example, in the last inferior conjunction (on 27 Mar, 2009), Venus moved only 0?37 in a retrograde motion over 24 hours, so her movement was slow.

I really don?t understand why you have been taught that Venus moves swiftly during her inferior conjunction with the Sun, but you can clearly see that is not the case. The extra detail I explained above accounts for the traditional philosophy on this, and I hope that makes sense.

With best wishes
Deb


Hi Steven,

I do much more horary than natal work, and I?ve found this to be a very useful descriptive feature for building up physical and psychological profiles. But I think that the ability of a planet to signify is much more pronounced in horary because the chart exists purely to give a description of a person or a situation at a certain point in time. I?m very interested to hear of your experience in general terms, and hope to come back to add more to this point a little later when I have more time.

Regards to you both,

Deb

Hi all

It seems to me that the idea that Venus or Mercury is moving swiftly during their inferior conjunctions is because at that time they're moving swiftly backwards. Obviously it's still very slow compared to their direct movement. I think it's a contextual statement.

Regards

H.

handn wrote:Hi all

It seems to me that the idea that Venus or Mercury is moving swiftly during their inferior conjunctions is because at that time they're moving swiftly backwards. Obviously it's still very slow compared to their direct movement. I think it's a contextual statement.

Regards

H.

Yes, I think so.

Venus at her inferior conjunction is coming from the station where she was still then she moves again even if retrograde and she is going to reach the Sun which is slower.
When she arrives at her conjunction and after her matutine heliacal rising, she starts to stop until she arrives to the matutine station, where she changes direction and becomes direct.


But yes, Deborah is right when she says a direct Venus is faster than a retrograde one.

I guess this is the reason why Venus and Mercury are better in their vespertine heliacal rising, even when traditional authors say "oriental."

Some authors take it for granted, but others explain in plain words. "Oriental" is just the most effective heliacal rising for inner planets.

margherita

steven wrote:Hi Margherita,

I think that is what I said

Yes, I was hasty in reading. Moreover please consider English is not my mother tongue (and neither I live in country where English is spoken) so these two factors are too much to deal with

However, where perhaps we part ways is that I don't believe Ptolemy is the last word on finding professions in the nativity.

No, I agree with you. At least to me that chapter is not easy to grasp.
There are many cases where no conditions of the ones mentioned by Ptolemy is observed.
So if we are strictly true to Ptolemy we cannot find a significator for profession. Generally I take everything for good- especially Mercury and Venus when matutine (which should be discarded).
Just I tend to avoid invisible planets, but sometimes I'm obliged to take them, like the astrologer with an invisible Mercury.


[

My question was asking for other experiences in the combination of indicators towards professions, especially keeping in mind the phases of these same significators.

If you remember in hellenistic astrologers like Firmicus or Manilius (who take from older sources) what is relevant for profession are paranatellonta, not phases.

For example Lilly writes in the III book of CA

"Mars signifies such laborious and hard Professions which require both the strength and endeavour of the whole body .....If he be meanly dignified, he makes Champions"

and the rules are the same as Ptolemy, Mars oriental and visible, but according Firmicus athletes are given by Gemini, because the constellation of Lepus rises with this sign.

So at least for me it's a quite subject,

margherita





[/quote][/code]

Hello everybody,

Happy New Year!

From Margherita,

I don't agree with Deborah that Venus is slow when it is at inferior conjuction, I was taught in Bezza'association, CieloeTerra, that planets with the Sun are always fast.

From Deb

What you are being taught is a mystery to me, but by all means check the details for yourself. Here is some info from the current cycle:

Venus experiences superior conjunction on Jan 11th 2010. Her movement over 24 hours is then 1?15 - so she is moving swiftly.

The next inferior conjunction is on 29th October 2010. Her movement over 24 hours is then 0?36 (retro) - so she is moving slowly.

It will be similar in every cycle. For example, in the last inferior conjunction (on 27 Mar, 2009), Venus moved only 0?37 in a retrograde motion over 24 hours, so her movement was slow.

I really don?t understand why you have been taught that Venus moves swiftly during her inferior conjunction with the Sun, but you can clearly see that is not the case.

Venus is very fast when she is in superior conjunction to sun. Venus is also very fast when she is in inferior conjunction to sun compared to her retrograde motion i.e. if we were to plot the daily velocities of Venus during her retrograde motion, the fastest retro motion would be during the inferior conjunction. However, the fastest direct motion would definitely be much greater than the fastest retro motion.

So, both of you are correct (in a sense!).