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Will I hear from my friend?

 
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cx61



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 17

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:48 am    Post subject: Will I hear from my friend? Reply with quote

I had a friend that I was very close to for the better part of 10 years, until she got married. Her husband didn't like me much and I stopped hearing from her. This was three years ago. I managed to get a hold of her in September and she sounded very welcoming, but I've heard nothing since. Do I need to just give this up or is there a possibility? If so, when?

In looking at the chart I think I see the Moon carrying the light from Mars (her significator) to Saturn (my significator), so perhaps there will be some intermediary bringing about a reunion? I'm really not certain how to determine timing on this one; if there is the possibility of a positive outcome.

I also am not certain whether translation of light works if the Moon has already left one of the two significator planets before the question is asked.

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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1118
Location: California, USA

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello cx61, I do empathize with your situation, and hope that things work out and that you reconnect. I have had friends who have allowed their spouses to come between them and others as well, and it is a very sad thing indeed.

My quick thoughts:
This does appear to be a painful situation for you, as your significator is a burdened Saturn in the 8th house of loss and mental anguish, and even Saturn doesn't rejoice here. Your primary significator has a negative point value using Lilly's point system (the Moon has a little strength), so it lacks much power to bridge the gap of communication, and it is also peregrine, so a bit lost and confused on what to make of this whole thing or how to fix the problem. I have been this exact planetary placement (Saturn in Virgo in the 8th) for a relationship and it was very painful for me, and actually did not end on a very good note - sort of like a karmic hangup. The Moon is also conjunct the fixed star Markab, which is an unfortunate "star of sorrows."

But your horary does have some more positive things than mine did. Your friend seems to be a bit torn over this, since she is in both her triplicity and fall (and also in a domicile of Moon, detriment of Saturn). But she is one of the few planets that are fast here and is also angular and applying to a sextile to Saturn, and therefore does have some inclination to act. Lilly's point values say that Mars (your friend) is the strongest planet in the chart (I use Regio not Placidus), and is therefore the one more likely to act or reach out to you. She is close to the dragon's tail, and I don't know how much of an orb you would give. Some only use within one degree. South node conjunct a good planet can be a negative indication, unfortunately.

Your friend's L7 (husband) would be Venus, and Venus may have been prohibitory before via Moon-Venus opposition (before the Moon-Mars trine perfected), and it looks like he is trying to again for the Mars-Saturn sextile, but isn't fast enough, and Mercury, natural sig for communication (or perhaps another party), is in between you and Venus as well and gets to you before Venus (frustration of Venus). Mercury translates light from Mars to Saturn. Mercury is slower than usual, picking up speed from going direct after being retro, and accidentally debilitated in the 8th but it is also strong in essential strength (it is the second strongest planet in the chart besides Mars). Venus does still have essential strength here too(trip/face), and therefore may have some ability to influence how this plays out.

Normally oppositions aren't so great either (the Moon-Saturn opp, which you are right will probably transfer light from the separating trine from Mars to Saturn), and they can show separation. I think over all the chart does seem to show some sort of exchange in the future (the Moon and Mars are also in mixed reception), but I am not sure if the conflict between the three of you will be resolved. If we look at the Moon as an indication of time, she is mutable and succeedent with a three degree difference, which might be in around 3 months from the time of the question, so maybe in January. The Moon is slow and peregrine though, so timing may not be so exact.

I also look for anything that might be significant in Sabian symbols involved (not a standard technique of course), and Mars' symbol is "The Meeting of a Literary Society," and is also in the turned 9th, which made me wonder if your friend would be talking to you about getting together for something related to 9th house matters. Your Sabian symbol talks about aristocratic women meeting together as well.
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cx61



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 17

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit - Thank you so much for this wonderful indepth reply. It does seem to match the circumstances, as I know them, quite well. What have your sources been for studying horary? Your analysis is much more thorough than anything I would begin to know how to do - and I want to learn!
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 210

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! So much going on in this chart with all the aspects, receptions, Fixed Stars and Sabian Symbols. But in addition to what Tanit covered so well, I am going to go WAY out on a limb and say the main problem here, indeed the "elephant in the chart", may be your friend's fear that her husband is (or may become) attracted to you!

First of all, in spite of whatever kind of opposition there was in the past between Venus (her husband) and Moon (you), Venus still holds Moon in exaltation as well as Saturn (you) in triplicity. And even though Saturn is in Venus's fall along with Venus himself, Venus is still applying to a conjunction with Saturn, which Mercury (your friend's fear/8th) intercepts. Mercury also prevents Mars herself from completing its friendly sextile with Saturn, and the fact this basically all takes place in your 8th just seems to underscore your sense of loss because of it.

But she's feeling the loss, too, because she clearly still has a ton of affection for you (Mars receives Moon in triplicity, terms, and face) and loves to hang out with you (specifically, term dignity). And of course you feel the same way about her (Moon receives Mars in domicile and face). However, the current lack of communication and possible misunderstanding can't be ignored (Mars is in Saturn's detriment).

The chart/Moon's activity seems to suggest a similar picture, i.e., It comes from the warm fuzzy trine to Mars but also carries the separating opposition energies of Mercury and Venus (as described above) to Saturn, and Moon's conjunction with Uranus just before it hits Saturn also seems to repeat this theme of the shock and calamity of separation.

Also, continuing on with the pertinent Sabian Symbols that Tanit described, there are a couple of other very interesting ones that seem to reinforce that your friend fears her husband is attracted to you, i.e., Venus (husband's SS) is at 16 Virgo, which is the "wild power of primordial nature within oneself..." ("children coming face to face with an orangutan"...), and Mercury (your friend's fear/8th) is at 23 Virgo, which is the "need to tame one's vital energies and animal nature in order to fulfill one's destiny"... ("a lion tamer displaying his skill and character"...)

And the Asc. (querent's other SS) at 6 Capricorn is "the need to complete an undertaking before seeking entrance to whatever is beyond"...("10 logs under an archway leading to darker woods..."), which I think suggests that your friend's fear, jealousy, or misunderstanding needs to be resolved before your relationship with her can continue.

So that's the story all the combined indicators suggested to me. Does any of it make sense or does it just sound preposterous? Shocked Whatever the case, best wishes for a speedy reunion with your dear friend.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1393

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Cx61

I disagree with some of the judgements above. I donīt see any clear indication of a comeback, and I donīt believe you should do a lot of effort about it. Let it be her choice, and if she doesnīt make a move, that is your answer. Not all friendships survives a marriage.
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cx61



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 17

Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think her husband was ever attracted to me. He and I were in some classes together, and from my observations and stories told to me by other classmates, I would consider him to have a borderline personality syndrome. Literally, from one week to the next he went from stalking another girl to vowing eternal love to my friend. This was very clear to me and to others watching this develop - but what can you say in such a situation?
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 210

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cx61 wrote:
I don't think her husband was ever attracted to me. He and I were in some classes together, and from my observations and stories told to me by other classmates, I would consider him to have a borderline personality syndrome. Literally, from one week to the next he went from stalking another girl to vowing eternal love to my friend. This was very clear to me and to others watching this develop - but what can you say in such a situation?


Thanks for the feedback, which I think pretty much confirms what the chart suggests. It's clear he's given her good reason to feel threatened and insecure regarding ANY women, no matter how completely uninterested they may be. My guess is that she'll eventually come to her senses and divorce him, and that's when she'll want to resume her friendship with you.

Regarding "what can you say in such a situation?", my initial thought was there is probably nothing you can do or say to help her see the light and resume your friendship currently, but it's interesting that her other Sabian Symbol at 24 Scorpio, cusp of the 11th house, is: "the need to incorporate inspiring experiences and teachings into everyday living"... ("after hearing an inspired individual give a sermon, the people return home"). So according to that, maybe she would be influenced by a friend or other sincere person's wise counsel or just kind listening ear. I don't know.
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cx61



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 17

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carol, thought I would add one more thing. My friend's natal chart has many T squares involving Pluto and Uranus opposing Saturn and Chiron, squaring Venus and Sun. Currently transiting Uranus is conjunct her Saturn and Chiron, so I fear that she has been going through some challenging times.

If/when I hear anything I'll post an update.
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 210

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cx61 wrote:
Carol, thought I would add one more thing. My friend's natal chart has many T squares involving Pluto and Uranus opposing Saturn and Chiron, squaring Venus and Sun. Currently transiting Uranus is conjunct her Saturn and Chiron, so I fear that she has been going through some challenging times.

If/when I hear anything I'll post an update.


OMG, her natal chart unfortunately sounds as spot-on of her situation as the horary! Especially with Venus being one of the focal points of those T-squares. However, with Transiting Uranus currently conjuncting her Natal Saturn, my guess is she may totally surprise even herself at the major changes she'll soon find herself making. Like they say, with Transiting Uranus, it's breakup, breakthrough, or breakdown. Uranus just won't be suppressed as far as making a person get rid of a completely unacceptable status quo situation or else suffering the consequences.

Thanks for that further very interesting information, and yes, please do keep us posted!
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1118
Location: California, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Tanit - Thank you so much for this wonderful indepth reply. It does seem to match the circumstances, as I know them, quite well. What have your sources been for studying horary? Your analysis is much more thorough than anything I would begin to know how to do - and I want to learn!


Thanks very much, cx61, but I still have much to learn too. I became interested in horary last year, and learned first through observing a professional astrologer, and reading horaries with outcomes, etc. I have always learned best via observation and hands-on experience. I wish I could afford more books, but I only have Anthony Louis' horary book (plus basic astrology books I've collected over the years). Skyscript has a lot of free resources. I think the best way to learn anything is via practice. Very Happy

Quote:
Also, continuing on with the pertinent Sabian Symbols that Tanit described, there are a couple of other very interesting ones that seem to reinforce that your friend fears her husband is attracted to you, i.e., Venus (husband's SS) is at 16 Virgo, which is the "wild power of primordial nature within oneself..." ("children coming face to face with an orangutan"...), and Mercury (your friend's fear/8th) is at 23 Virgo, which is the "need to tame one's vital energies and animal nature in order to fulfill one's destiny"... ("a lion tamer displaying his skill and character"...)


I noticed the orangutan one also, but I didn't get the feeling he was attracted, it seemed like it might suggest he is being a Neanderthal in his behavior about this friendship. He might feel threatened or inadequate around querent.
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Carol



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 210

Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I noticed the orangutan one also, but I didn't get the feeling he was attracted, it seemed like it might suggest he is being a Neanderthal in his behavior about this friendship. He might feel threatened or inadequate around querent.


I can see how you might get that from just the visual image of the kids/orangutan the book gives, but I think the actual meaning of any Sabian Symbol is in the main concept they give after the image, which in this case is: "wild power of primordial nature within oneself," which seems to me to be clearly the primal id, sex drive, basic survival, etc., not the ego, i.e., feeling threatened or inadequate around the querent.

Of course generally speaking, I agree the husband's behavior does seem to be indicative of MAJOR ego problems, too, but I still think this specific Sabian Symbol refers to just the id, not the ego.
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 509

Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:
Hi, Cx61

I disagree with some of the judgements above. I donīt see any clear indication of a comeback, and I donīt believe you should do a lot of effort about it. Let it be her choice, and if she doesnīt make a move, that is your answer. Not all friendships survives a marriage.


Hello Yuzuru

I think I can see where your view is probably coming from, and maybe it's just me but I'd like to ask if you could write a little bit more about your astrological reasoning?

Why I ask is just that it's very easy to read what you've written and see your conclusions, but parts of it could come across as if you're giving advice from your own beliefs, not necessarily from the chart.

I doubt that you are, I just want future readers to avoid any misunderstanding!

Hope that makes sense and doesn't cause offence.

Regards

H.
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cx61



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 17

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's mid-February and it looks like Yuzuru called it. I have heard nothing from this person, so I'm writing this one off - but I still have some very good memories from the past!
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1393

Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think I can see where your view is probably coming from, and maybe it's just me but I'd like to ask if you could write a little bit more about your astrological reasoning?



Hi, I was updating the Index of Horary charts with Answers and stumbled in your question! Sorry for the long delay!

To tell you the truth I donīt remember anymore :-(
But looking at the chart, I suppose my reasoning was:

the friend is represented by 7th house (in the context of the question, I believe it is a 7th house question), the moon. They are connected by an opposition without reception, after the moon separates from mercury.

Mercury gives the merry encounter, but nothing serious, and after that, the only possible relationship would be by opposition, so I advice her not to push the matter and let her come to her.
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My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
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