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An Excellent Solar Return Book
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BiBi_Anderson



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 82

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In revival of this thread, and out of my own curiosity. I was just wondering how siderealists percieved and used Dynamic/Satic aspect eg hard aspect vs soft aspects, and the conjunction being neutral.
Anyway, obviously in all backgrounds of astrology, the Conjunction is just two planets coming together, both bringing their negative and postive qualities to the table, but what about other the aspects. I have not read too much on Aspects from Western Sidereal astrologers aside from their power of manifestation.....example" soft aspects need to be partile manifest anything if anything at all and hard aspects will usually manifest something.
BiBi
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Steve



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply to BiBI Reply with quote

Quote:
BiBi wrote:
I was just wondering how siderealists percieved and used Dynamic/Static aspect eg hard aspect vs soft aspects, and the conjunction being neutral.
Anyway, obviously in all backgrounds of astrology, the Conjunction is just two planets coming together, both bringing their negative and postive qualities to the table, but what about other the aspects. I have not read too much on Aspects from Western Sidereal astrologers aside from their power of manifestation.....example" soft aspects need to be partile manifest anything if anything at all and hard aspects will usually manifest something.


Hi BiBI,
In the practice of sidereal astrology, particularly applied to return charts, siderealist teach the most powerful aspects are those compatible with the four angles, the conjunction, opposition, and the square. The four angles are clearly the most potent points involving any scope and represent the ancient’s grand symbol -- the Cross. Most siderealist (including Jim Eshelman’s teachings) will include the 45 and 135 aspects as being potent aspects and my astrological experiences certainly confirms the 45 and 135 are very important. The above aspects are termed ‘Dynamic’ aspects by the siderealists.

Most siderealist reject the so-called ‘Soft’ (Static) aspects (30, 60, 120), particularly with return maps. Some siderealist will include the ‘Soft’ aspects but only when they are partile and involved with a ‘Dynamic’ aspect. Jim in his book ‘Interpreting Solar Returns’ makes an excellent point with John Nelson’s work where Nelson clearly correlated heliocentrically, the ‘Dynamic’ aspects were important in triggering major solar flares; whereas, the ‘Soft’ aspects, especially the trine, put a damper on solar activity (flares). Nelson said the exception to this dampening effect of ‘Soft’ aspects with solar activity was when the ‘Soft’ aspect connected directly with a ‘Dynamic’ aspect pattern. For example, when a planet 120 one end of a 180 and 60 the other end of the 180, Nelson said that in this case, the ‘Soft’ aspect strengthens the ‘Dynamic’ aspect for producing solar activity. With my personal work with return maps, I will ‘factor in’ the partile 120 when I see strong evidence of other ‘Dynamic’ with a return map.

There is another important statement made by the siderealists pertaining to return maps. The quality of an aspect depends on the innate nature of the planets involved in an aspect—not the quality of the angular distance between the aspect. For example: A square or opposition with benefices is definitely to be regarded as benefic. To further define this aspect axiom with the siderealists with return maps-- I will quote Bradley from his book ‘Solar and Lunar Returns’ on page 14:

Quote:
“The natures of the planets involved determine the meaning of the configuration, and not the popularly assumed “nature” of the aspect concerned. In other words, any aspect involving Mars, Saturn, or Neptune, trines and sextiles included, is read as an adverse indication. Any aspect between the Luminaries and Venus, Jupiter, or Uranus, squares and oppositions included, are taken as favorable auguries.”


My astrological experiences have definitely proven to me there is much truth with Bradley’s above statement.

Regards, Steve
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With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan
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BiBi_Anderson



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 82

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve, I wanted know know the differences aside from the angular distances of the dynamic aspects. I know the static aspects trine/sextile act kind of like a soothing aspect putting situations to sleep. I know that the 90 45 135 aspects are very similar, but what are the differences between them and the opposition, and how do western siderealist view their differences. I know the fundamental ideas behind the aspects, no matter what, is the planetery symbolsm, but how the different dynamic aspects inspire the planetary combinations to behave the way they do.
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Steve



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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply to BiBI Reply with quote

Quote:
BiBi wrote:
I know that the 90 45 135 aspects are very similar, but what are the differences between them and the opposition, and how do western siderealist view their differences.


I really don’t know how the siderealists would view the ‘differences’ between the different ‘Dynamic’ aspects. As far as the ‘different’ strengths between the dynamic aspects, Fagan said the conjunction and opposition were more potent associated with important events. This is very true-- especially when the transiting planet is angular in the solar return and conjuncting or opposing a natal planet. All I know is when you see angular planets backed-up with ANY kind of dynamic aspects with a solar return—you can expect to see major events take place during the solar year defined by the intrinsic meaning of the involved planetary symbolism.

Quote:
BiBI wrote:
I know the fundamental ideas behind the aspects no matter what is the planetary symbolism, but how the different dynamic aspects inspire the planetary combinations to behave the way they do.


I really don’t have an answer for this question—other than the ‘Dynamic’ aspects are laws of nature pertaining to geometry. Plato was one of the few Greek initiates initiated by the Egyptian Priest. I think Plato in his writings to the world said:

Quote:
God Geometrizes!


Regards, Steve
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With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan
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Steve



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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply to BibI Questions with aspects Reply with quote

Hi BiBi—some further thoughts pertaining to your questions about aspects with the siderealists.

After noting planets in the immediate foreground (7.5 degrees) of a return chart, siderealists pay very close attention to the ‘dynamic’ aspects in return charts and any ‘dynamic’ return aspects to the Natal Planets. On page 95 from ‘Interpreting Solar Returns,’ Jim offers his explanation pertaining to ‘Aspect Orbs.’ This interpretation is the best I have ever read pertaining to aspect orbs and has proven to me much astrological truth. It would be worth remembering Jim’s statement pertaining to ‘DYNAMIC’ aspect orbs where he states:

Quote:
“Another key point is the 80% mark on the aspect curve. For conjunctions and oppositions, this is a 4 degree orb; for squares about 3 degrees. Aspects within this range, especially transits (for the dynamic aspects), should be eagerly attended when in the Solunar foreground. We are now encountering very serious influences. Partile aspects (1 degree orb or less) reign supreme.”


* I am guessing—but Jim would probably allow an orb of 1.5 degrees with the 45 and 135 dynamic aspect for ‘encountering very serious influences.’

With my astrological experiences, I cannot over stress the importance of partile aspects. When you see partile aspects in a return map with solar planets and/or partile aspects of solar planets (transits) to natal planets—you have indeed isolated ‘very serious influences.’ Always use your software function to isolate and NOTE these partile aspects pertaining to return maps. Partile aspects speak a very unique and important truth pertaining to things astrological with return maps. Experience has ingrained on my brain—pay very close attention to partile aspects in return maps.

Regards, Steve
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With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan
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BiBi_Anderson



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 82

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, so I guess the difference among aspects has come from a more tropical school of thinking, where as the only difference between the dynamic aspects in Western Sidereal astrology is strength.
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Steve



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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply to BiBi Reply with quote

Hi Bibi,
‘Dynamic’ aspects indeed indicates ‘strength’ in return charts and are very important to note.

The following numbered steps are a good Solar Fire habit (eye-exercise) for quickly identifying (possible) very important ‘Dynamic’ partile aspects for solar return charts.

1: Under ‘Current Settings’ on Solar Fires main page next to ‘Aspect Set’ select ‘HARM08’—this will calculate the ‘Dynamic Aspects’.

2: When you calculate a return chart bring-up (double left clicking) the calculated return chart. Then select ‘Reports’ on the right side of ‘View Chart’ page. Then in upper right corner of page select ‘Aspects List.’ You can then quickly note the partile aspects by scanning for 0 degree with the ‘dynamic’ aspects.

3: If there are any planets within 7.5 degrees (the closer to the return angle-the more potent) of a return chart angle—then check for partile or tight aspects to this angular planet. A unaspected angular planet will offer a planetary theme for the solar year but any Partile aspects to angular return planets speaks volumes of important planetary symbolism, which in most cases, will indicate ‘outstanding incidents’ for the solar year pertaining to the ‘dynamic’ aspected planetary symbolism.

Steve
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With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan
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BiBi_Anderson



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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also wanted to know, how you yourself view the Moon/Sun phase return?
Maria
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BiBi_Anderson



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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've already gone through my interpretation of my 2010 SSR in Private, but I wanted to post one here and interpret it myself, and you could grade me on it to see how I am doing.......it's very dynamic chart! So Hooray

This is the big one I'm looking foward to possibly a life change?!
The first thing to notice is the Moon Conjunction 1.41 degrees in the background place!, but they're both making a sextile aspect to Jupiter not only strengthenening Jupiter but themselves as well!
Jupiter is only 6.30 degrees away from in MC in both Mundo and Zodiac!! An amazing year for personal advancement in career, money, ect, in combination with the sun and moon this configuration illicits joy and illumination in all things Jovian!
Venus is Sandwiched closely between the East Point and the Ascendant, emphasizing her even more........So, I hope it's a year where I meet a man to fall in love with. I really hope so......I hope it has nothing to do with rebuilding relationships with family and friends that are no longer going anywhere.
Saturn is also Conjunct the North Node, so this could possible damper on my relationships with others
Anything else would be greatly appreciated Steve.....I hope I win the lottery, or that some honor is bestowed upon me!


Last edited by BiBi_Anderson on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Steve



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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply to BiBi Reply with quote

Yes BiBi, your 2013 Solar Return is a very fortunate return and is something to look forward to with much happiness promised. Both of the Benefices, Jupiter & Venus are in the immediate foreground (angular) dominating the main themes for this Solar Year. Also, Uranus is the next closest planet to an angle—Uranus is the thrill planet and is aspected with dramatic Pluto. Also another very important component of this return is Solar Jupiter is partile 180 to your Natal Moon and angular—very potent. It usually takes one of the four moons prominetely aspectd to symbolize events. Never forget partile solar aspects to Natal planets are locked in for the entire Solar year. ‘Partile aspects reign supreme!’ Moon-Jupiter symbolism is one of the best aspects for joy & happiness.

Regards, Steve
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With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan
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BiBi_Anderson



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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Steve, Venus/Jupiter will form a paran on the angles for the SQ2 later on that solar year....too bad you can't fast foward through all the bad Solars....Or sleep through them
My 2012 features Venus tightly on the ASC as well, but it also features a tightly partile moon opposite Mars(22 minutes)......so I have to be very careful that I make it to 2013. I know that Mars moon might not be indicative of death, but in JFK's it was indicative of violence, I also remember that chart you posted about a man who had a weapon pulled out on him when he was at work, when MO/MA was paran!
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Steve



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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply to BiBi Reply with quote



Hi BiBi, prominent Moon-Mars can be, but not written in stone, a strong symbolic indicator of violence or very angered situations. The Moon-Mars SQ1 Paran Quotidian chart you referenced is included in this post. The native found himself in a management situation where there was a sophisticated theft ring. He was trying to root-- out the leader(s) of this theft ring and one day he caught one of the ring leaders stealing money and confronted him. The theft pulled a knife on the manager and the manager pulled a gun—it got very nasty—but no bloodshed. Mars is one of the malefics and is notorious for disputes/violence of all kinds but it always depends upon one’s immediate environment. Moon-Mars could be inductive for good energetic action—it depends on other factors within one’s environment.

Steve
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With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan
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Steve



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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject: More Solar Return teachings Reply with quote

To truly understand and see all of the important components of a Solar Return, taken as a whole, requires serious study of ‘Interpreting Solar Returns.’ Always remember this thread only illustrates separate teaching components of a Solar Return from the teachings of ‘Interpreting Solar Returns’—with separate posts dissecting the whole teachings. Jim stresses reading the Solar Return twice, once by itself, and again using a bi-wheel noting any possible Solar Planets aspects with Natal planets. Personally, I mainly pay attention to the conjunction and opposition aspects between Solar Planets and Natal Planets. However, I pay very close attention to all the ‘dynamic’ aspects when reading a Solar Return by itself without comparing the return chart to the natal chart. Many times there are no significant Solar Planet aspects to the Natal Planets, but at times Solar Return partile aspects to the Natal Planets become crucial for the astrologer to see. Jim states on page 6 of ‘Interpreting Solar Returns:’

Quote:
“Solar Returns are transit-based techniques. They arise from a precise aspect (conjunction) of the transiting Sun with the natal Sun. They consist of transiting planets at a given moment in time, near or on one’s birthday, locked into collusion with natal planets for a year to follow.”


Sometimes, this ‘locked into collusion with natal planets for a year’ will pinpoint the times when certain aspect patterns of the Natal Chart will manifest. Always pay very close attention to any partile aspects with Solar Planets to Natal Planets, particularly the conjunction and opposition. If this occurs close to the angles of the Solar Return, you have isolated very potent aspects that will dominate long time periods within the solar year. Even if these Solar Planet aspects to Natal Planets don’t occur close to the Solar Return angles—they are still important. I will later illustrate this solar return planet ‘collusion’ effect with natal planets with an example from my personal files.

Steve
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With all our modern knowledge and scientific equipment, and with the the great strides made in mathematics, we astrologers have done nothing to even remotely compare with the achievements of the astrologers of antiquity. Cyril Fagan
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BiBi_Anderson



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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I wonder if Solar/Lunar Returns are the only important transit based predictive systems aside from regular transits. There have not really been too many predictive astrological break throughs since the Egyptian era.
The second best predictive techniques I've observed are Horary and Age Harmonics, and they've been both very hit and miss, at least in my opinion.
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Steve



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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply to BiBI Reply with quote

Quote:
BiBi wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if Solar/Lunar Returns are the only important transit based predictive systems aside from regular transits. There have not really been too many predictive astrological break throughs since the Egyptian era.
The second best predictive techniques I've observed are Horary and Age Harmonics, and they've been both very hit and miss, at least in my opinion.


My study of Cyril Fagan’s work has convinced me Solar Returns originated in ancient Egypt pertaining to what we know of known history; and, the Solar Return is one of the best, if not the best, prognostic systems available to astrologers pertaining to genethlical astrology. In my eyes/mind, the Solar Return is a most sacred astrological instrument. But when it comes to prediction, even Fagan with Solar Returns said predicting the actual cause of an event or incident with planetary symbolism ‘deserts astrology for mere speculation.’ In other words, predicting with Solar Returns is also a ‘hit and miss’ endeavor—we can only prognosticate the nature of how the native will psychologically ‘feel’ with planetary symbolism in a Solar Return—not the entire true predictive mundane cause of the native’s ‘feelings.’

Steve
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