Nobody gets the Ascendant

1
I've been testing out a new method specifically for games that start at the same time with virtually identical charts. I have been focusing on football since this is my particular interest but this method could be used for other team sports too.

The idea is to pick a planet, any planet, which best symbolises each team rather than using the Asc and Desc rulers. There are various ways of doing this - colour association, name/nickname symbolism, city/town symbolism etc. Once you have chosen your two planets, you simply continue to analyse and interpret using your preferred method of weighing up the various testimonies.

I have been using the colour method which I like because it is more visual and it seems to be working so far. One advantage is not having to force the colour to fit one of two planets so, for example, the team wearing red is Mars every time. I am still experimenting with colours but results should show whether I've allocated them correctly or not.

This method is very much in its infancy at this stage and needs a lot more testing but in some cases it appears that the planet above the horizon wins and the planet below the horizon loses. This sounds too simple to be true and is probably a fluke! It's much too early to say, although it certainly made sense in two games in particular where the underdogs beat the favourites - Fulham/ManU and Spurs/Wolves. When both planets are on the same side of the horizon, more work has to be done. Unfortunately it doesn't automatically indicate a draw!

I will test it out again this Saturday but would be interested to hear what others think of the idea. At least it removes the angst of deciding "who gets the Ascendant?" although choosing which planet best signifies each team might also produce some angst. Still, variety is the spice of life :D

Re: Nobody gets the Ascendant

2
I think it's a good idea. As I stated in an other thread, I gave up deciding "who gets the ascendant" because that was too messy for me. Every method that surpasses this problem is attractive for me. :)
Ficina wrote:The idea is to pick a planet, any planet, which best symbolises each team rather than using the Asc and Desc rulers. ... I have been using the colour method which I like because it is more visual and it seems to be working so far.


It means, any given team "can be" Venus at one match and Saturn at an other match, right? As it depends on the colors. My idea is, how interesting it would be, if, on the long run, you found out that a certain team was always represented by the same planet. Although... It's not OK, what if both teams playing are represented by Mars. Forget it. :oops: :)

My other idea is, probably as wise as the previous one :) one could use planets that are not L1-L7 but L2-L8, L3-L9 etc. Thus symbolizing the opposition.
Ficina wrote:Unfortunately it doesn't automatically indicate a draw!
I have concerns about predicting the draw, generally. :(
Ficina wrote:I will test it out again this Saturday ...
I do hope you are going to post your analyzes into this thread! :)

3
Thanks for replying, Taurean. I'm glad you think it's a good idea. Only time will tell if it really works or not. Even if it doesn't, I think it's always fun to try something new.
It means, any given team "can be" Venus at one match and Saturn at an other match, right? As it depends on the colors.
Yes, that's right.
My idea is, how interesting it would be, if, on the long run, you found out that a certain team was always represented by the same planet. Although... It's not OK, what if both teams playing are represented by Mars.
If you're using name symbolism, this is quite likely to happen, but not with colours. You would never get both teams playing in red (Mars) for example. At least, I hope not!
one could use planets that are not L1-L7 but L2-L8, L3-L9 etc. Thus symbolizing the opposition.
I think any method is worth experimenting with to see how it works out. And yes, I will post some predictions here nearer the weekend and hope the whole thing doesn't fall flat on its face :oops: :lol:

4
Nobody gets the Ascendant
This is a great idea, Ficina! :) :' (and who would want the descendant??)
I made several successful judgements by departing from the ascendant but leaning either to the contidion of Fortuna (favourite or underdog), or by the condition of the 10th (same criteria) or luminaries aspecting angles indicated the favourites.

We had the game on 19 Dec where Portsmouth beat Liverpool 2-0. This chart was not radical, but Mars (L1) was aspecting the Aries ascendant. So the home team, who were underdogs, got it. Well, this example does give the ascendant to someone - but the question has been who gets the aascendant - the home team or the favourite? Maybe some general aphorisms/observations should be gathered and discussed under another thread with reference to some of the other material we have gathered elsewhere?
http://www.astronor.com

5
I'm glad that you like the idea, Andrew :)

The example you gave was of a game with an individual start time and I'm quite happy to give the Asc to the home team in this situation. But as I said at the beginning of my original post, this new method is an attempt to get round the problem of games with the same start times and virtually identical charts. So although we're looking at (more or less) the same chart for, say, six games, the significators will probably be different for each game and therefore the approach will be different.

It's quite interesting actually because normally we are limited to the same old four combinations of significators - Moon/Saturn, Sun/Saturn, Venus/Mars and Mercury/Jupiter - whereas with this new method we'll get all kinds of combinations. For example, using the colour method, a red team versus a yellow team will give us Mars versus Sun. We would never have this combination using Asc ruler versus Desc ruler. If nothing else, it makes a refreshing change.

Afterthought: I'm not saying the method can't be used for games with individual start times but, to my way of thinking, it isn't really necessary. And, strangely enough, from the few games I've looked at, it doesn't appear to work so well.

PS There is an old thread on allocating the Ascendant http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3102

6
Hello all, an interesting idea Ficina.

This weekends premiership matches start at staggered times. If I understand the idea you have, we allocate colours and planets to each team.

Fulham V Tottenham 26 Dec 13:00 White v Dark Blue
West Ham V Portsmouth 26 Dec 13:00 Maroon/light blue v White
Burnley V Bolton 26 Dec 14:00 Maroon/light blue v White
Man City V Stoke City 26 Dec 15:00 Light blue v Red/white
Sunderland V Everton 26 Dec 15:00 Red/white v blue
Wigan V Blackburn 26 Dec 15:00 Blue/white v Dark blue

On the assumption that my colour selection is correct, we then allocate the planet, or planets that best describe that team?

7
Hi John and welcome back. I'm so pleased that you find my idea interesting and absolutely delighted that you want to try it out! I hope others might be willing to give it a go too.
On the assumption that my colour selection is correct, we then allocate the planet, or planets that best describe that team?
Yes, that's the idea. I'm trying to stick to one planet only but it's not obligatory. Re colour selection, Blackburn's away colours for this season appear to be white shirts with a bit of red. Shorts are red but I've decided to look at shirts only and ignore shorts, although I might modify this decision depending on how things work out. So I'm giving Blackburn the Moon (white) which is conveniently in Aries anyway, giving a touch of red.

I realise that colour association can be quite a personal thing so different people may choose different significators. I don't think this actually matters because the results should show us whether we've allocated correctly or not. It's all experimentation at this stage but I'm trying to stick to fundamentals, so this is how I'm approaching it at the moment:

Sun = yellow, gold and (probably) orange
Moon = white
Mercury = combination of two colours (e.g. claret/sky blue) but not when one of the 'colours' is black or white
Venus = pastels (e.g. pale blue)
Mars = red
Jupiter = royal blue
Saturn = black and possibly very dark blue (some of the dark blue away strips look almost black (like blue-black ink)

I'm working on the 3pm games and will report back later.
Festive greetings to you all :)

8
I had some judgements involving Blackburn where they performed well with the significator in the early degrees of Leo. This is, of course, a fire sign and the significator was in the terms of Saturn (Black-burn). The Moon on the 26th is in the last degrees of Aries at 15.00 GMT on Saturday, which conveniently is a fire sign and in the terms of Saturn, too. I will be following Blackburn's performance to see whether this is a combination they are comfortable with.
http://www.astronor.com

9
I agree the Blackburn game is an interesting one. Here are my thoughts on the 26 Dec 3pm games utilising the above/below horizon idea that I mentioned earlier. I want to find out whether it's just a fluke or not.

ManC/Stoke
ManC - light blue = Venus
Stoke - red/white = Mars
Venus above horizon, Mars below. ManC win. Not a big deal as a prediction since they are odds-on faves playing at home.

Sunderland/Everton
Sunderland - red/white = Mars
Everton - blue = Jupiter
Mars below, Jupiter above. Everton win. This is a real test since Everton have the double disadvantage of being the away team and underdogs. (Hopefully Everton won't decide to wear their black/pink(!) away strip as that would completely mess things up!)

Wigan/Blackburn
Wigan - blue = Jupiter
Blackburn - mainly white = Moon (probably)
Wigan are faves. Both planets above horizon so need to use other considerations. Both planets peregrine. No aspects to Arabic parts. Hour-ruler Sun helps neither although a case might be made for Moon in Aries. I'm going for a draw. If Wigan win, then Blackburn should have been given Mars (for the red I mentioned earlier) which is below horizon.

I've also checked all the club natals. Nothing doing apart from Moon applying conjunct Wigan's natal Mars within 1 degree.

10
Good to be back!

I just wondered if the dark blue third strip of blackburn would clash less than the white! We'll see :D

Going with the colours suggested by Ficina I make the following suggestions:

ManC v Stoke. I agree ManC

Sunderland v Everton. Jupiter and Mars are in mutual reception by term-draw

Wigan v Blackburn. I've only been back two minutes and I'm agonizing over void of course moon. I think Jupiter edges it. Whether it is enough to win, I'm not sure. Seeing that we have a view for Blackburn and a draw, I'm with Wigan!

11
I just wondered if the dark blue third strip of blackburn would clash less than the white!
Oh lord, I'd forgotten about the third strip! :???: That's the problem nowadays - not knowing what the away team will wear. Often they wear an away strip even when there's no clash - probably to promote sales especially when it's a new strip. Like the other week when Wigan played away to Stoke. Stoke wear red/white, so I presumed Wigan would be in their normal blue since it wouldn't clash. Lo and behold, when I turned on the TV, there were Wigan sporting orange shirts!

Many thanks for your suggestions. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. I shall be glued to the TV just before 3pm when they show all the teams coming out, just in case I have to make some rapid readjustments. It's usually possible to place bets after the games have started, preferably before the first goal is scored and the odds change! 8)

12
If Blackburn play in dark blue-saturn they are beneath the horizon.
I think saturn is the stronger planet, so I go for Blackburn if they play in their third strip!!