Future prediction thru hindsight...Mars retro 1941

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[this has to do with analysis and prediction utilizing the Sabian Symbols...so be thus forewarned it won't be "The cup of tea" many of you may be looking for. Dave M.]

Greetings. A number of you may have read the two analyses I've done on retro planets elsewhere on the internet. As a reminder; I've mentioned it is a theorethical and thus empirical technique...but by all indications does work.

Let's take a look at Mars retrograde back on Sept. 6, 1941.
Mars went retro at just about 23* Aries 43', the 24th degree of Aries. at that time the Moons North Node was in the 23rd degree of Virgo.The Principal/Cosmic Law, that Mars is trying to stimulate action in is represented by the Sabian symbol found at the 24th of Aries.
From Rudhyar we get the Symbol and his definition.
"ARIES 24*: BLOWN INWARD BY THE WIND, THE CUTAINS OF AN OPEN WINDOW TAKE THE SHAPE OF A CORNUCOPIA. Keynote: Openess to the influx of spiritual energies." And Rudhyar goes on to define/explain this symbol with the keyword[s] "MOLDED BY TRANSPERSONAL FORCES."
The North Node at this time was in the 23rd degree of Virgo...thus representing what Mars' stimuli concerning this Principal/Law meant to society.The 23rd degree of Virgo is [from Rudhyars' book] "VIRGO 23*: A LION TAMER DISPLAYS HIS SKILL AND CHARACTER. Keynote: The need to tame ones' vital energies in order to fulfill ones destiny.We see here the development of the concept of training. The true aristocrat is the individual who is in complete control of his vital and emotional energies; at the spiritual level this includes the overcoming of pride - pride in ones' strength and mastery, and the pride attached to an exalted status or social office."
...and Rudhyar went further on in summation..."...The meaning of this phase of development is traditional and evident. The whole process of social -ethical and occult - spiritual conditioning of the individual aims at the control of mans' 'animal nature.' The energies of this nature can be put to many uses. Implied in any successful process of taming and training is [Rudhyars' keyword{s}] RESOLUTENESS AND PATIENCE'.
As this was just prior to the States entry into WWII I find it interesting that the combo of symbols here suggests about exactly what a warrior would do just prior to battle.
1. Meditate on the situation...open ones self to the 'Godhead' ...one must determine if his battle is a noble and honorable one...one that is "TRUE". To let oneself be 'Molded' or 'Cast' by the Cause into the Man it needs for the situation... to be shaped by the 'Transpersonal Forces"
And 2. One has to be calm "Resolute" and "Patient" ...be a complete master of himself and his skills to "Tame" the opponent.

Mars went retro till Nov. 10, 1941.
Mars was at apprx. 11* Aries 29' when it went direct that day. i.e The 12th degree of Aries. The Moons North Node was in the 21st degree of Virgo. This degree symbolically represents the additonal energy of a specific Principal/Cosmic Law that Mars had to return to for more of to get the job done at the 24th degree of Aries when it makes it final return.
The sabian for the 12 degree of Aries is "A TRIANGULAR SHAPED FLIGHT OF WILD GEESE. Keynote: An idealistic reliance upon a mental image of universal order....and Rudhyars Keyword[s] for this symbols definition are "COSMIC ORDER" [...And this is the degree of the Zodiac that the Sun is in, in my proposed birth chart for Jesus/Yeshua...]
The symbol for the North Node at the 21st degree of Virgo is "A GIRLS BASKETBALL TEAM"This symbol is about training as a group. And when you combine it with that of the one for Mars...an interesting implication arises that training/discipline/and order are the 'ORDER OF THE DAY'.
Well, at this point we have imagery of resoluteness, patience, skill, training as a group and are being told to keep in mind what the correct "Cosmic Order" is ...

It's almost as if it was being asked, of those that follow the Creators plan, of those that are one with his will, to prepare and train for an 'adversary' that challenged the "Cosmic Order".

Mars returned to 23* Aries 43' on the 29th of Dec., 1941 and the North Node at that time was in the 17th degree of Virgo.But, Mars, on it's way to the "Final Return" entered the 22nd degree of Aries on the 23rd of Dec. The Sabian symbol for which is "A PUGALIST ENTERS THE RING."...gee, a symbol of a trained fighter entering the ring/fray and this happens just after the attack on the USA at Pearl Harbor...The North Node that day? The 17th* of Virgo...Sabian Symbol "A Volcanic Eruption" Keyword: "EXPLOSION"!!!

...Sabians!!
Last edited by Dave M. on Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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[and using the above as an example of interpretation utilizing this technique...I offer the following...Dave M.]

Greetings Star folk.
A planet in retrograde does a one, two, three...do si do...little dance that is of important observational notice.
1. The degree and minute of the Zodiac it begins its retro. motion from.
2. The degree of the Zodiac it begins its 'Final Return' from.
3. When it returns to the exact degree and minute of the Zodiac that it started its retro movement from.
At each of these points its important to note the degree of the Zodiac the North Node is in at the time.

A planet at step number one is trying to release a principal/spiritual law of the Cosmos which is symbolically represented by the degree of the Zodiac it starts its retrograde motion from. This is the point I refer to as the "Stimulus"....what that particular planet is trying to get moving/influence [Stimulate...etc.] The symbol for the Noth Node at that time is "WHY" as it applies to society as a whole.

At step number two the planet is picking up 'ignition' energy for this 'cause' it is trying to achieve. The 'Ignition' is represented by the symbol for that degree of the Zodiac. The symbol of the degree of the Zodiac for the North Node at that point is, again, as to 'Why'.

At step number three we have the 'Release" and the degree symbology of the North Node again pertains to "Why".

This Month Mars goes retro at 19* Leo 42, i.e. the 20th degree of Leo, and the North Node will be in the 23rd degree of Cap.
The Sabian symbol for the 20th degree of Leo is [from Rudhyar] "ZUNI INDIANS PERFORM A RITUAL TO THE SUN. Keynote: A return to the glorification of natural energies." ...and Rudhyar goes on in his definition about "returning to nature" and reversing societal direction in order to find a way to the "deepset release of our long denied root energies. His Keyword[s] for this symbol are, "IDENTIFICATION THROUGH WORSHIP."
Curious symbolgy considering it is that time of year traditionally for Winter Solstice 'Sun Rites'.

Thus Mars will be trying to impart energy to society in the ideal of this symbology...and Mars is 'Action'...

The North Node at this time will be at the 23rd degree of Cap....this represents why the planets are in the degrees of the Zodiac they are in...it thus represents why the Cosmos needs Mars energy applied to the 20th degree of Leo.
The symbol for the 23rd degree of Cap. is [from Rudhyar] "A SOLDIER RECIEVING TWO AWARDS FOR BRAVERY IN COMBAT. Keynote: The reward offered by society for the fulfillment of individual responsibility.
Mars will go retro to 00* Leo 18'. The first degree of Leo. This degree of the Zodiac is most profound symbolically [see my thread,{elsewhere}, on the "Birth Chart Of The Universe"].
This degree, symbolically, is about being fully cognizant and aware...full awareness. [Thus this represents the 'Stimulus' energy Mars needs to acquire more of to get the job done].

The North Node at that time will be on the cusp of the 19th and 20th degree of Cap. The symbol for the 19th degree of Capricorn is about [from Rudhyar] "Rising to the occaison when asked to assume social responsibilities ahead of ones normal development."
The symbol for the 20th degree of Capricorn is [from Rudhyar] "A HIDDEN CHOIR IS SINGING DURING A RELIGIOUS SERVICE. Keynote: The fulfillment of the individuals creative function through his participation in a group performance consecrated to a transcendent realization of unity."
...more to follow...next "The Final Return"...or what's it all mean?
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Last edited by Dave M. on Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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When Mars returns to its' starting point [r.e. Step 1..."Final Return" at 19* Leo 42'.] the North Node will be in the 15th degree of Capricorn.This symbolically represents what the "Release" of Mars' energy into/through the 20th degree of Leo represents as to where the Cosmos/Creator wishes to direct societies destiny for this event.

The 15th degree of Capricorn is, symbolically [Rudhyar], "IN A HOSPITAL A CHILDRENS WARD IS FILLED WITH TOYS. Keynote: The responsibility of society to ensure the welfare and total health of the new generation."...well, here in the States we have a National Health Care bill in debate in Congress...that could be a connection here...

...but as I'm part Native American [you should see my 'Sun Kochina' collection]...as a yogi whom espouses the benifits of Sun Rites [Pujas...Om Surya Namah Om]...and as I live in apt # 19 ...check your Tarot cards...I believe I am getting a "BIG BRIGHT GLOWING" message here!

...maybe a primer for the 'Drill' coming in 2012?
__________________
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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...Now, I'm preparing on analyzing the Mars retro just prior to the 9 - 11 attack here in the States.

...this is gonna be a doozy to interpret...but I believe I'm starting to see the picture.

Here's a primer for those of you that would like to do your own analysis...or just get a jump on the info.

Mars retro: May 11, 2001 @ 29* Sag. 03' ["THE POPE BLESSING THE FAITHFUL. Keynote: The need to pay homage to the traditional values upon which the Invisable Community of the spirit is built."...and Rudhyars' Keyword[s] "PERSONALIZED WORSHIP'.]
...the North Node was at 08* Cancer 45' [and the symbol here is about; Keyword[s] "PURITY IN UNDERSTANDING."]

Mars went direct June 20, 2001 @ 15* Sag. 06'. "SEAGULLS FLY AROUND A SHIP IN EXPECTATION OF FOOD." [Rudhyars definition for this symbol summarized included.... "...how nature can become subserviant to mans' relentless ambition to dominate the entire bio-sphere through an all-human planetary socioeconomic organization."...the North Node was at 05* Cancer 06'. "GAME BIRDS FEATHER THEIR NESTS. Keynote: An instinctual dedication of self to new forms of life." [the symbol here is of 'Birds' {as is the aboves for Mars}...and birds symbolically represent spiritual entities/beings...and this symbol is about producing young sacrifices, "Game Birds", {martyrs?!} for a cause.]

Mars made its' "Final Return" to 29* Sag. 03' on Sept. 6, 2001.
...the North Node was at 02* Cancer 32" ["A MAN BUNDLED IN FUR LEADS A SHAGGY DEER."]
...of interest here is Rudhyars mentioning that the "Deer" is a symbol of Brahma, the Creative God! ...and Rudhyars mentions this is about a "...leading to new spiritual paths...toward the spiritual North Pole." ...and Rudhyars Keyword[s] for the definition "A TESTING OF THE WILL"
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You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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Greetings. I have this thread posted at another web-forum on Astrology where-in a debate arose as to which country was thus being indicated by this transit of Mars as per its relation to the nodes.
The author of the point of contention began by stating that history is written by the victors,,,that all sides believed they had God/The Creator/the Cosmos on "their" side...and thus it is a question that is "Moot". [if I'm correctly using the term, "Moot", here.]
As I explained only the USA was just entering "The Ring" for the fray in Dec. '41...that wasn't enough for them.
{and they have yet to explain how the Atheistic Bolshevik Soviets believed "God" was on their side...]

...but enough on what occured in another forum.

To anyone interested in the logic behind this debate here is an interesting article from the "Guardian" I found.

It's called the "Pretzel Logic Of Relativism"

...here's an interesting synopsis...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...icofrelativism
__________________
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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Could you sum your prediction in a more comprehensible way please?

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Could you sum your prediction in a more comprehensible way please?
Just think in a hindsightly sort of way (it's in the title).






:-?


There's gotta be a good reason for doing this.

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.....you're kidding...right?
I gave you a 'rosetta' stone of an example from Dec. '41. Study the situation in Dec. '41 between the actions of Mars retrograde to the Moons Nodes...it's that simple.
This is not the mechanical side of Astrology.
Granted you do use the mechanics of calculations to arrive at the position of Mars and the Nodes...but from there you do have to use the "Right Side" of your brain. This is a 'Right Brained' activity...

...Here's a little something from Dane Rudhyar that will help explain.

[and this technique, that I'm proposing, is essentially Rudhyarian...in fact, if you read enough of his works, you'll find that he proposed all the ingrediants at one time or another.]


" In the great majority of cases, planetary nodes are of no real meaning in the lives of human beings. They acquire at least potential meaning when a person, as a participant in a sociocultural whole, can be considered a mouthpiece or channel for the operation of collective forces. If the person has reached the stage of individual development at which he or she is actually conscious of what happens through his or her being, then the transpersonal level has been reached; but if there is no consciousness of being an agent of some supersocial and supercultural Power, but only a kind of unconscious mediumship the person still operates at the sociocultural level.
At that level, the trans-Saturnian planets ? Uranus, Neptune and Pluto ? also act mainly in an indirect and collective manner; that is to say, they operate through changes occurring in the society or culture as a whole ? for instance, as changes in life-style, fashion, and education, or changes in the political and economic structure of a nation. To the great majority of people living in more or less normal and relatively stable periods of cultural and political evolution, such changes cause a minimum of personal problems; people readily adjust to them. Yet, since the process of individualization has reached a stage at which it has become a public issue, and the attainment of a state of conscious, free and autonomous individuality is presented in one form or another all over the globe as the ideal goal of human evolution, the trans-Saturnian planets play a critical role even at the sociocultural level of astrological interpretation." [Dane Rudhyar]


...DO YOU SEE? THIS EXPLAINS THE ESOTERIC, 'HIGHER OCTAVE', EFFECT OF THE PLANETS AS THEY WORK IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE NODES...This is what I'm saying is happening at this time...it may be un-observable to a great many people at the time it is happening...but once the smoke has cleared....!!!
It is the same for all the Planets, not just the "Outer" ones...possibly the effects are even more noticable in society from Mars, Jupiter & Saturn.
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Last edited by Dave M. on Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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...here, I'll go out on a limb for you...it seems that's what you want.

Prediction:
"A return of ancient spiritual rites..especially Sun rites...and a better understanding of them...the continued demise of the Catholic Church...possibly it's fall...the return of...The Knight of the Sun, Knight of the Word, Knight of the Sword i.e. Parsival [re-incarnate] along with a number of other Knights of the Round Table and Templar Knights; as predicted by Trevor Ravenscroft...[Yes, I do believe in the 'Legend of Arthur'!!!...and I believe Ravenscroft was privy to some rather occult/esoteric knowledge]...a National Health Bill will get approved in the USA...there's more but that's all I'm going to say.
Try your own hand at it.

...There. There's my prediction out of all that...what's your movie?
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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well I'm not certain it proves your theory, but....(it isnt' like the church has power as it did before reformation, or like the some muslim countries, you dont want to be catholic, dont be) in any case this just came accross the wire...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091224/ap_ ... _christmas
By ARIEL DAVID, Associated Press Writer Ariel David, Associated Press Writer ? 10 mins ago
VATICAN CITY ? A woman jumped the barriers in St. Peter's Basilica and knocked down Pope Benedict XVI as he walked down the main aisle to begin Christmas Eve Mass on Thursday, a Vatican spokesman said.

The Rev. Ciro Benedettini said the 82-year-old pope quickly got up and was unhurt. As the pope's procession was making its way toward the main altar gasps rang out through the public and a commotion could be seen among the clergymen surrounding Benedict. The procession came to a halt and bodyguards rushed to the trouble spot.

Benedettini said the woman who pushed the pope appeared to be mentally unstable and had been arrested by Vatican police. He said she also knocked down Cardinal Roger Etchegaray, who was taken to hospital for a check up

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...well, my father was born Roman Catholic, his parents came here to America from Italy...my mother is of Quaker faith ...we are direct descendents of Richard Hough of Cheshire, England [of William Penns' cadre]...both my parents became something of 'Theosophists'...so to speak...lot's of Gnostic and Vedic knowledge/books in my childhood home...Edgar Cayce...Blavatsky, Bessant, Ledbetter, Manly Hall, et. al...a collection of articles/books/stories on the legendary St. Germain... ad infintim the numerous additional magazines, books and articles on the esoteric/occult/paranormal/metaphysical...
I found my faith in Hinduism through the practice of a devotional form of yoga...particularly Japa Yoga... but I recognize Jesus/Yeshua as one of the greatest Avatars to ever walk on Earth or water for that matter.

...do you know of the dispute between those that believe in the 'First
Church at Glastonbury theory and the Vatican?
http://www.asis.com/users/stag/glastonb.html
...the Catholic Church has a long history of subterfuge and deception...not to say that its members haven't produced 'Saints"...but, Oh my the politics that have gone on in Rome.
...I did say the Church might fall..maybe the Pope taking a fall soon after I wrote it is an omen...hhmmmmm...
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

Re: Future prediction thru hindsight...Mars retro 1941

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Dave M analysis is highly interesting (self- motivatied) & inspiring work..quite exemplary and worthy of further research ...

However, still I feel Dave is writing all this to promote Yogic Way of Life and way forward for others to experience Consciousness as he has experienced.
Dave M. wrote:

. The whole process of social -ethical and occult - spiritual conditioning of the individual aims at the control of mans' 'animal nature.'
And 2. One has to be calm "Resolute" and "Patient" ...be a complete master of himself and his skills to "Tame" the opponent.


Prediction:
"A return of ancient spiritual rites..especially Sun rites...and a better understanding of them...the continued demise of the Catholic Church...
"You are a Divine expression of the Universe"