hmm, 6th house sag.. I got every childhood disease going and very badly. I had pneumonia when I was about 10. Since then, I've been healthy, just the odd cold. I think that the work my immune system did through my childhood was actually a benefit in the long run. 9th house, well, I love astrology, I'm a voracious reader/learner and increasingly my spiritual life is very important to me. Done my share of globe trotting. I love horary, I put that done to saturn in the 9th. The structure/rules of that particular form of divination suits me well.

Wish I could find the full reference..

May all your Christmas wishes come true ...

It's from 'The Considerations of Guido Bonatus'. As translated by Henry Coley it reads:

The 26th Consideration is whether the significator be in his second station, that is towards direction; for that signifies also hindrance and evil, which already hath been and is past; yet some say that this second station is as good as direction: but this is only a way of speaking, as when one hath been sick and begins to grow well, we say he is recovered and sound, which is not simply true, but somewhere near it; for as the first station is not so bad as retrogradation, so the second station is not so good as direction.

Merry Christmas to all
Deb

Cheers Deb! Christmas wishes to you too.
Seems my memory over emphasised somewhat. Although he does state "some say" he obviously doesn't believe it himself. I'm going with "some say" on the basis of my experience and Tracey's observation, with the added benefits of MR and rulership well noted.

Another thing- what about essentially well frtiffied only retrograde planets. I saw a chart just the other day (only it is still not rectiffied) where the lord of the Ascendant is retrograde Mars, placed inside the 5th, in the sign of its rulership and its exaltation? How does this "tired man" run then?!

And, of course, Merry Christmans to all of you celebrate it today/tomorrow!

I'm all about context, so I think that you should look at what exactly the retrogradation and said planet means.

For example, take a Saturn as significator of profession, in domicile, inside 9th. That could mean that the person is a history teacher. Now, why is that?

Saturn = old, past (ancient) and 9th means study, learning, university and graduation, formal knowledge. The retrogradation overemphasizes that "look at the past" connection.

Still, in a general, ample way, I think that retrogradation will be a debility, meaning that the planet delivers, but with some hardship. Simple example: I have a pratically stationary Mercury and Venus on my chart, Venus rules my 7th. That slowed my 7th house matters a lot, so my adolescence passed without me having a single flirt. Same goes for my Mercury, it delayed my studies (by my own choice I slacked of long before going to university). Still, when I get to study, I always tend to do very well, cause simply put, I have a Virgo Mercury, so no need to make a lot of effort. Not the same with my peregrine Venus though. So whatever mercurial task I put myself to, I do well, not so with venusian ones.

So, a retrograde planet is a debility affecting time in my opinion, it delays and missguides whatever the planet delivers, be it very good (good essencial dignity and no affliction) mediocre (peregrine) or horrend (debilitated without any help from benefics). Also, it could always be worse (debilitated and afflicted with no help, which is the tragedy of tragedies).

Looking for something else, I found Ibn Ezra'sAphorisms on this site:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/bow.html

33 The planet, which is in its first station, is like a man who does not know what he will do, and its result is bad: if it is in its second station, it is like a man who expects something and whose hope will not be in vain.
45 If the planet is about to reverse its motion, it forecasts unsuccessful consultation, difficulty, and destruction: if its motion becomes direct, it will better the luck in the matter, its strength, and its uprightness.

Reminded me of this thread so just adding for reference.

PFN, your planets station RX I assume?

PallasAthene wrote:PFN, your planets station RX I assume?

No, both of them 2nd station, very slow. They deliver, but in a delayed fashion as before said. If they were station to retrogradation it would be a lot worse I guess.

One example that I like to use is a secondary progression on my mother's chart. She has a RX Mercury as ruler of 5th (Virgo). The year Mercury turns direct in her chart by secondary is the same year she got pregnant for the first time (guestimating, very near the same month Mercury turned direct, more exactly when he speeds up for real). There were other testimonies as well, like the firdar (she was in a Mercury sub-ruler period, the AC of the SR was in Virgo with Mercury, Moon and Venus inside in a tight stellium, etc...). Interesting isn't it?

Another interesting fact, possibly not related to retrogradation, except maybe, as a bad choice in life, worth notice anyway. Also on my mother's chart, she has Saturn RX on 11th (Pisces) ruling the 10th (Aquarius). My grandmother died around the moment Saturn hit Venus trigon by secondary progression. Venus is on the cusp of my mother's 5th (in fall) the turned 8th for my grandmother (8th from 10th). She died due to complications of diabetis (Venus=sugar) posited in this turned 8th's cusp natally in my mother's chart.

I'm not saying that the above presented matter of pregnance was delayed, as she was very young at the time, but the fact that by a simbolical motion Mercury had to turn direct in order to properly deliver it's function sure is a good sign of how retrogradation affects something. So I re-state retrogradation as a debility, preventing, delaying (or speeding up in certain contexts, but in a reverse motion to natural or "correct" way) or damaging, 1st station likely worse.

Yes, I agree, retrograde is a most definitely a debility. But on natal charts Rx can actually mean 3 different things....stationing retrograde, retrograde and stationing direct which needs to be differentiated. Sorry, this is probably a rookie observation.

In keeping with planetary speed, it seems that a planet standing still at stationing direct is "better than" a slow retrograde one.

PallasAthene wrote:In keeping with planetary speed, it seems that a planet standing still at stationing direct is "better than" a slow retrograde one.

I agree with that.

Avraham Ibn-Ezra, The Beginning of Wisdom, p. 136 and 137, differentiates as follows:

"91) A planet about to turn retrograde is like a frightened person, fearing adversieties that are coming to him.

92) A retrograde planet is like a rebellious and defiant person.

93) A planet in its second station is like a person hoping for good [circumstances].

94) A planet slowing down is like a person who is exhausted and has no strength to walk.

95) A planet swift in motion is like a young man running."

Johannes

Sorry, I missed your quote of Ibn-Ezra, PallasAthene!

But the differences of both translations are still interesting. I quoted the translation of Meira B. Epstein.