Winter 2009/2010 Longduring Mars/Saturn aspects

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Studying the ephemeris one will see that during the whole month of December 2009 Mars will be in (minor) semi-square aspect/45? with Saturn within an orb of 1?. As Mars is now approaching the aspect, he also is approaching his station on 21 December. The exact conjunctions occur 5 December and 27 December when Mars just has started to move retrograde.

Saturn too is slowing down and approaching his station and is about to move retrograde 14 January 2010.

In the meantime the backwards moving Mars will be approaching his sextile to Saturn; from the second week of February till end of March the sextile will be within an orb of 2?. The exact aspects occur 15 February and 23 March. Mars' station then falls on the 11th of March after which he moves direct again.

I expect these positions to have an effect on the weather. Like I did in the longduring 3 months Venus Mars conjunction thread I'll focus on the weather in North-West Europe / the North Sea countries, because I know the climate over here. When I speak of 'the weather' I mean this area.

During the long Venus Mars conjunction the weather was very good, most of the time was sunny and quite warm. During the longduring (over a month) sextile of Venus and Mars the weather was rather normal but sulky (the Netherlands had the sulkiest february in 30 years). Although normal, this contrasted with the cold weather of january.

What about the weather during upcuming aspects? Here's a work of Kepler
http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/astrology/ ... rology.pdf
(Although Ren? recently pointed out that the English translation has some mistakes and the German translation is of higher quality than this English one, I don't have another one for the time being and will have to use/quote this one. I hope in the essence this is correct)
Interestingly Kepler too mentions (in above link) a longduring Mars Saturn sextile during winter, in 'Thesis 52'.
Kepler wrote:the months December, January and February will have the sextile of Saturn and Mars, which will be of exceedingly long duration. For if it happens that Mars is stationary during this time and Saturn is slow per se, (there will be) a violent disturbance and a most conspicuous excess in the state of the air. But it is not so easy (to say) in which way there will be an excess.
If there were only this aspect (Mars sextile Saturn), I would predict extreme
cold owing to snowy exhalations, but on account of the aggregation of several aspects, I think there will be such a disturbance, chiefly through the position of Mars that the air will be heated by the warm vapors proceeding from the bowels of the Earth, that the snows will almost be melted, and the roads rendered impassable to a great extent.
So it's difficult to tell what 'our' next sextile will do. In Thesis 31 Kepler states that Saturn has moistening power during conjunctions and oppositions and is least moistening at both squares with the Sun.
Around Christmas (2009) Saturn is in square with the Sun and Mars in sesquiquadrate (135?).
This combined with the following remark,
at the sesquisquare of Mars and the Sun, sharp (cold) is indicated, with light and stiff winds, and snow according to the conditions (prevailing).
, I believe we might expect a rather cold december with strong winds and 'dry' snow, especially around Christmas. I think the cold will stay a bit (but changeable, typical 'lingering' weathertype) during the period of Venus' superior conjunction of mid January and without the winds.

I think the cold finally comes to an end at the end of January with Mars' opposition to the Sun (In Thesis 54 Kepler mentions the Sun Mars opposition giving thunderstorms.) I believe there will be an increase of moisture (and temperature but this is normal after winter) with the most moisture around the March equinoxe when Saturn is in opposition with the Sun.

Perhaps these are somewhat educated guesses but at least I believe Kepler's remark that there will be some kind of excess during these aspect periods.

Again, note that these expectations are made for North-West Europe but any thoughts (before or after these aspects (have) occur(red)) on excesses in the weather in other regions are more than welcome of course.

Re: Winter 2009/2010 Longduring Mars/Saturn aspects

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Hello Eddy, your Kepler looks like very modern :)

As you know, in more ancient authors weather depends on sizygy and its rulers and not just from aspects of planets.

But yes, certainly some aspects show a perturbation of weather, like the "opening of the doors" mentioned by Albiruni.

Another interesting point in your post is the mention to the planet phase, that William Lilly will repeat in CA writing about temperament.

But Lilly is always true to ancient astrologers, Kepler a little less, I guess.

For example an opposition of Saturn to the Sun never can be moistening because superior planets when opposite to the Sun are very hot.

Where is the weather in your country at the moment? Here in Rome is unusually warm.

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

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Hi Margherita,

Kepler is indeed very modern in these quoted texts. In Thesis 49 he strongly rejects the use of Sun in Aries ingress charts and the other ingresses in cardinal signs and also lunation charts. One of his arguments is that the astrologers of his days made use of tables in which the moment of the Aries ingress is wrong resulting in different rising signs.

In Thesis 21 he says that the quality of reflected (by the planets of the Sun's) light is moistening and therefore is the most when fully lit, i.e. at conjunction (at least the outer planets Mars Jupiter Saturn) with the Sun and at opposition. Mars indeed shows a gibbous phase when at quadrature to Sun (here's a picture http://gatesscience.info/teamescience/i ... ne2005.jpg ) Jupiter and Saturn much less because of their distance.
In Thesis 30 he mentions Saturn being cold but moistening because he says that Saturn makes the summers rainy and the winters snowy.

Indeed he opposes tradition probably on both theoretical grounds as experiential (in weather) grounds. I don't really have a problem with this, perhaps meanings/effects of planets can change through time and research can give other insights. In this view I may be considered a modern astrologer. However I'm not modern in the 'Jungian' sense. Perhaps I should rather be called a traditional modernist than a modern traditionalist :) .

Here in the Netherlands it is also too mild for the time of the year, I'll look for some actual planetary positions.

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Hello again,
Eddy wrote:Hi Margherita,
Kepler is indeed very modern in these quoted texts.
In Thesis 49 he strongly rejects the use of Sun in Aries ingress charts and the other ingresses in cardinal signs and also lunation charts. One of his arguments is that the astrologers of his days made use of tables in which the moment of the Aries ingress is wrong resulting in different rising signs.
It should be because of natural philosophy. Lilly was an astrologer, so he was not touched by the new science.

But scientists cannot be indifferent. When supernovae appeared in the sky and everybody can see, it was impossible going on with Aristotle, and with Aristotle Ptolemy, it's obvious.

In Thesis 21 he says that the quality of reflected (by the planets of the Sun's) light is moistening and therefore is the most when fully lit, i.e. at conjunction (at least the outer planets Mars Jupiter Saturn) with the Sun and at opposition.
oh my God :)
Indeed he opposes tradition probably on both theoretical grounds as experiential (in weather) grounds.
Maybe it's someone linked with the long station of Mars in Leo...anyway just a guess I did not cast any chart,

margherita
The same was for Jean Stade. I was intrigued by the fact he tried to do weather forecast with astrology and he was always wrong, while his father, a farmer, could know always in advance weather, so at the end he decided to put together both, experience and theory.
I'll look for some actual planetary positions.
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

5
Hello again,
Eddy wrote:Hi Margherita,
Kepler is indeed very modern in these quoted texts.
In Thesis 49 he strongly rejects the use of Sun in Aries ingress charts and the other ingresses in cardinal signs and also lunation charts. One of his arguments is that the astrologers of his days made use of tables in which the moment of the Aries ingress is wrong resulting in different rising signs.
It should be because of natural philosophy. Lilly was an astrologer, so he was not touched by the new science.

But scientists cannot be indifferent. When supernovae appeared in the sky and everybody can see, it was impossible going on with Aristotle, and with Aristotle Ptolemy, it's obvious.

In Thesis 21 he says that the quality of reflected (by the planets of the Sun's) light is moistening and therefore is the most when fully lit, i.e. at conjunction (at least the outer planets Mars Jupiter Saturn) with the Sun and at opposition.
oh my God :)
Indeed he opposes tradition probably on both theoretical grounds as experiential (in weather) grounds.


The same was for Jean Stade. I was intrigued by the fact he tried to do weather forecast with astrology and he was always wrong, while his father, a farmer, could know always in advance weather, so at the end he decided to put together both, experience and theory.
I'll look for some actual planetary positions.
Maybe it's someone linked with the long station of Mars in Leo...anyway just a guess I did not cast any chart,


margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

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Hi Margherita,
But scientists cannot be indifferent. When supernovae appeared in the sky and everybody can see, it was impossible going on with Aristotle, and with Aristotle Ptolemy, it's obvious.
Interesting that you mention this. Before Tycho Brahe proved with parallax that comets are beyond the lunar sphere, people used to believe that novae and comets where events that occurred in the athmosphere. In classical thought such changes in the 'uncorrupted' spheres indeed where unthinkable.
The same was for Jean Stade. I was intrigued by the fact he tried to do weather forecast with astrology and he was always wrong, while his father, a farmer, could know always in advance weather, so at the end he decided to put together both, experience and theory.
Here Kepler mentions something on predictions in general http://cura.free.fr/docum/15kep-en.html ?9.8
Kepler wrote:9-8 Natural predictions are more reliable than those of astrology, because they are derived from earthly and direct causes, and thus address the specific matter more accurately. Thus a military strategist knows about future fortune and misfortune [in war], a lawyer about the outcome of his cases, a historian about change in government, an elderly man about the future condition of his children, a physician about the outcome of illness, a farmer about anticipated fertility or about rainy weather on the next day -- each better able to make pronouncements about his special area than the astrologer... The astrologer's specialty is to examine the single general and universal cause, the course of the heavenly bodies.
(Almanac for the Year of Our Lord, 1598)
There's a grain of truth in this. Knowing people which are close like family and friends one can make some global predictions about life. I believe astrology helps to indicate the moments but to predict for an unknown person you never see and from the chart alone would be very difficult for me.

That's also why I like weather predictions. I feel less reluctant in making concrete weather predictions for it's a rather innocent pass time. I don't think it will hurt people if the predictions prove incorrect unless people have bought skates for the allegedly cold December and it happens to be rainy and mild the whole month.

By the way I googled a bit for Jean Stade's name and also the latinized version of his name Johannes Stadius and found a book on google books
Ephemerides Ioannis Stadii
Quote:
I'll look for some actual planetary positions.

Maybe it's someone linked with the long station of Mars in Leo...anyway just a guess I did not cast any chart,
I had a look in the ephemeris, perhaps the actual square of Venus and Mars has something to do with these days' relatively high temperatures in Europe.

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Eddy wrote:.

By the way I googled a bit for Jean Stade's name and also the latinized version of his name Johannes Stadius

This is the weather chapter - in Italian, try with Google translator.

http://www.cieloeterra.it/testi.stadius/stadius.html

I had a look in the ephemeris, perhaps the actual square of Venus and Mars has something to do with these days' relatively high temperatures in Europe.
this is an opening of the gates, because Mars and Venus rules opposite signs. Unfortunately according Al Biruni it should bring rain :(

For what is in my experience weather forecasts with astrology sometimes are really disappointing.

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

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This is the weather chapter - in Italian, try with Google translator.

http://www.cieloeterra.it/testi.stadius/stadius.html
Thanks for the article Margherita. The translator is not so good with specialized issues like astrology but now I manage to understand some essential parts. I notice that Jean Stade focuses a lot on the fixed stars. I don't have experience with them but I believe that many weather issues related to them date from classical times when precession was not yet discovered and/or fully accepted. In Richard Hinckley Allen's Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning, there is a remark of Geminos p.126:
Geminos wrote:It is generally believed that Sirius produces the heat of the dog days; but this is an error, for the star merely marks a season of the year when the sun's heat is the greatest.
Interestingly Geminos is mentioned in Lahoux's article mentioned in Tom's recent thread ('Interesting Article' in the Traditional section). I think this relates to the remark in Hinckley Allen's book and is rather meant as an opposing remark towards astrology than as an 'acausal' or in a more modern sense 'synchronistic' explanation of astrology for Hinckley Allen's book mentions that Geminos was an astronomer (rather than an astrologer). In this book some of his objections (among which the one mentioned in Lehoux's article) against astrology are listed.

I assume Jean Stade in his days must have been familiar with and must have accepted precession. On the other side, I see that the (heliacal) risings and settings are not the only things he payed attention to, but also the planetary positions mutual and with stars. Perhaps I should have a look at what the weather was when Mars went through Praesepe 1st of November.
I had a look in the ephemeris, perhaps the actual square of Venus and Mars has something to do with these days' relatively high temperatures in Europe.
this is an opening of the gates, because Mars and Venus rules opposite signs. Unfortunately according Al Biruni it should bring rain :(

For what is in my experience weather forecasts with astrology sometimes are really disappointing.
There might be some hope. I googled for "heavy rain" , "november 19 2009", This was the day on which Venus and Mars were in exact square at about 8:00 UT. This could easily be seen as a bad joke, for the chance that anywhere on earth there may be some storm going on but when I saw that in Ireland and the UK there had been heavy rain that day. And here we are dealing with Europe (which has my focus).

This might cast new light on the method of astrometeorological research. Perhaps large areas should be taken into consideration. From the Cura article on Kepler ?5.3
Kepler wrote:...one sees that nature sweats rain out of the ground when there is an aspect. Before and after she is calm, even when the two lights beams are present... [but not in aspect].
It would be illogical to assume that at this moment of exact aspect it would start to rain everywhere. Perhaps it would then better to look for the place where it is most likely that there will be rainfall, usually where the clouds are and the differences between air pressure are the closest to each other (visible on the weathermaps where the isobars are closest). This could be considered as the 'weak spot' where the first rain will fall when the exact aspect occurs. This may be one time near England the other time in Norway or France. The continuation of the weather is then determined according to the natural course of depressions, like the winds moving to the east. Around the North Sea the most common wind is the south-west.
By the way today this rain reached the Netherlands :( .

In Italy on the other side there is the Mediterranean climate. Although the Venus Mars square aspect may have been the part that triggered the rain in the UK, it is very probable that this rain hardly will reach Italy. The Alps and the Pyrenees protect the Mediterranean countries against the Atlantic rains. So in this area the aspect may induce something else, an increased (muggy) warmth or strong winds that occur in the Mediterranean like Mistral, Tramontane etc.

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Now it's almost Christmas perhaps it's a good moment to have a look at the score so far.
If I may quote myself from the initial post:
Around Christmas (2009) Saturn is in square with the Sun and Mars in sesquiquadrate (135?).
This combined with the following remark,
Kepler wrote:
at the sesquisquare of Mars and the Sun, sharp (cold) is indicated, with light and stiff winds, and snow according to the conditions (prevailing).

, I believe we might expect a rather cold december with strong winds and 'dry' snow, especially around Christmas. I think the cold will stay a bit (but changeable, typical 'lingering' weathertype) during the period of Venus' superior conjunction of mid January and without the winds.
Here in the Netherlands we have had extreme snowfall since last Wednesday/Thursday night. Saturday 19 and Sunday 20 were coldest and especially on Sunday a lot of snow fell. There also was thunder which is quite exceptional in winter.

There are some differences from what I expected. 4 December (one day before the first exact Mars-Saturn semi-square aspect) a lot of rain fell. That day Venus was in sextile with Saturn, perhaps this position mitigated the semi-square. Here's a Kepler quote (in French) in another thread (sat 17 oct 12:26pm) in which Kepler mentions that usually minor aspects only are effective when the major aspects aren't there.

One week later friday 11th there was again a lot of rain. The Sun was in trine with Mars. Over the whole a wet and rainy week.

After the weekend it started to get colder with cold north winds and the first snow Wednesday (16th) night. It was dry snow that fell.

Last Sunday Mars was stationary and over 20cm snow fell.

Monday Venus and Jupiter were in sextile aspect, the winds came from the usual south-west, and today it is much milder than a few days ago.
Kepler wrote:...changeable and warm for this season of the year, due to the sextile of Jupiter and Venus
I wonder if the cold and the snow returns now the Venus-Jupiter sextile is seperating again. At least I think the station of Mars maked the semi-square much stronger. Interesting to see that the most expected cold was not at the exact semi-square but at the station, we'll have to wait till next week (27th) to see what the next exact semis-quare will bring.

If the snow remains/continue, then it will be the Netherlands' first 'official' white Christmas since 1981. 'Official' is both X-mas days with snow in 'De Bilt', location of the royal netherlands meteorological institute (KNMI). A few years ago the east of the Netherlands had white Christmas.

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From a weather point of view I think this conjunction will give some fine weather for a few days, perhaps not so dry but not cold. I think this sextile will give a lot of rain (in N-W Europe) and plays the dominant role, especially in March. During the Mars-Saturn longduring semi-square the snowfall was heaviest around Mars' station. Somewhere else I wrote that "I think of extremes around the date of Mars moving direct (the 10th) but I don't know what kind of extreme. March has a sting in its tail they say but I don't think a cold and snowy one this year. A few days before the 10th Venus will be trine with Mars on the 7th and opposite Saturn the 9th. I think of a warm front (warmer than usual) followed by heavy rainfall. (Maybe a bit lessened after the Sun-Moon_mercury conjunction of the 15th.)". However I think that Saturn opposite Sun will be wet again.

Last week with the altering of the rains and snows, Venus Mars were in opposition and later Sun Mars.

Sorry for this 'advertising' of myself. For the sake of research I try to make and share concrete predictions instead of saying in hindsight that I knew this all would happen (or would not). If March turns out to be dry and warm, I'll mention that I was wrong.
Now March has come to an end I can say that I was wrong. March in the Netherlands started as a cold month (the remnants of winter) but in the second half got warmer. There were no heavy rains on the days I mentioned. Two days before the Saturn/Sun opposition there was a lot of rain. This was two days after the Saturn/Mercury opposition. Maybe I should give this the benefit of the doubt, but on the whole I think I was wrong for March. Moreover I hadn't foreseen the heavy rainfall in February which caused the floodings in Madeira and France and wet days around the North-Sea countries.

The winter cold was above expectations, it lasted longer than I believed it to. December was cold though, however that started later than I believed.

Perhaps sextiles are too vague for weather predictions. In transits in personal astrology the 'hard' aspects are also said to be the most noticeable. Maybe something similar applies to weather astrology. I'll keep on experimenting though, probably focusing on 0?,90? and 180? aspects and 45?/135? aspects like December's longduring semi-square.