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Question about a new job while in a job
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 566

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:18 pm    Post subject: Question about a new job while in a job Reply with quote

If you already have a job and ask a question something like "Will I get another job in x units of time", what house would you look to for the answer? 1st to the 10th or 1st to the turned 10th from the 10th; i.e. the radical 7th? I think it would be the 10th? Confused Thanks.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 10th house! In the context of this question, you didnīt give any indication that the current job would be of any concern. He is "just there". The focus of the question was on the new job.

For instance in a question like "will X go out with me?" and you are married with somebody else, well, the question was not about your wife! So girlfriend gets the 7th house. Sometimes wife can discover and make things complicated for querent, but I vote for answering the question and nothing more!
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 509

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

If the question is "Will I get another job in x units of time" I definitely wouldn't turn the chart, there's no need to: the 'I' is the 1st, the 'job' is the 10th, so we can locate them both without needing to locate the current job, since the current job isn't being enquired about.

To look at it another way, if you don't currently have a job and ask "Will I get another job in x units of time" we wouldn't treat the 10th as indicating the current situation, we'd just treat it as 'career/job' and use it within the context of the question: person + career prospects.

Having said that, I think astrology's flexible enough to say something about the current situation if it's important enough, or if it's the main issue behind the question. So I'd be alert to, for instance, multiple planets in the 10th, some in one sign, some in the next sign, in case one sign is speaking about the current job and the next sign is speaking about the hopes for a new job.

Regards

H.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Having said that, I think astrology's flexible enough to say something about the current situation if it's important enough, or if it's the main issue behind the question


It is true. For instance, if the MC is in final degrees it is more likely that it is refering to the current job, and that there is something of importance to say about it.
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 566

Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Having said that, I think astrology's flexible enough to say something about the current situation if it's important enough, or if it's the main issue behind the question

The situation is *very* precarious, in that I have a job, but the owner of the company is 1 1/2 months behind in paychecks, and I need some money, so I have to find something else pretty darn fast!

Once again, I find the horary in a "borderline" situation and so seek your guidance.

Question was asked Nov 3, 2009, 3:34 PM, Kinnelon, NJ
12 deg 8 minutes Aries acendant.

I am Mars, ruler of the first, Solar Fire is giving me 5 points, so it appears I'm quite strong, I think it's because I'm in mutual reception with the Sun, although the Sun has nothing to do with my question, being ruler of the 6th.

The Moon, also very strong, is in its exaltation. Solarfire also gives it 5 points.

Saturn, ruler of the 10th and 11th, the job and its resources, very, very strong, strongest planet in the chart. Solar Fire giving it 10 points, in its exaltation, triplicity and term. Whatever job this may be, it's good and the money potential is also very good.

Saturn receives the Moon by Term and Face, and the Moon receives Saturn by Face. So there is actually mutual and mixed reception between the Moon and Saturn, weak, but still mutual!

In the particular horary, I am taking into consideration my 2nd house as well, i.e. my resources, what I have to offer to the company, and this is ruled by Venus. Venus, also very strong, in its dignity, and Saturn receives Venus by exaltation and triplicity. The company likes and values what I have to offer!


So here's the "borderline" problem. The Moon is in 25d 9 mts Taurus and Saturn is 0 deg 33 mts. Libra. While there is no aspect between Mars and Saturn, the Moon is coming to a trine with Saturn in 5 units of time, EXCEPT, it comes to the trine AFTER crossing the sign boundary into Gemini!!

So this time we have all the makings of a good "yes" horary, significators strong, mutual reception, mixed reception, nice little trine, BUT of course, something had to go wrong, and the trine takes place after crossing sign boundaries.

Of course, from my perspective (I am a perpetual wishful thinker), I'll take that to be a "Yes". But, one has to accept the truth! Would you consider this perfection?

Oh, and I was also wondering, can anyone locate the crappy existing job in here?

Thanks very much!
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Taurus

Just picking up a couple of things not mentioned in your posting which you may have already taken into account, but thought I'd write something just in case.

Firstly, when the Moon changes signs it will go into Saturn's Triplicity, so that's nice to know - it's not going to worsen in its relationship with Saturn.

Secondly, the Moon and 2nd house cusp are conjunct the star Algol. With that, and Venus as dispositor of the Moon, conjunct the Part of Fortune, it seems that the money situation is indeed the crucial factor. Backed up by north node (dispositor: Saturn) 10th->11th. In my opinion, this chart is really shouting about money. The question comes (which obviously you don't need to answer publicly - it's your private life): is your current job good except for the money? If the money problem was sorted, would you be content to stay put? It looks to me like it's only the money that's the problem, that you want to move away from. Saturn has already changed signs and has begun something new, but the Moon is readying to change, has just moved away from opposition with the Sun, is in her waning phase, is conjunct Algol, conjunct the 2nd etc. The movement of the Moon is also away from retro Uranus and stationary Neptune, both in the 12th - big circumstances beyond your control making you feel imprisoned?

Another thing, Saturn in the 6th, unless it describes the line of work you're looking for, is an accidental debility. If the former doesn't apply here, then it seems that there's something circumstantial afflicting the job itself.

I also think that MR between Sun and Mars, with the 7th house emphasis, could be saying something about the relationship with your boss, or some significant person, who is theoretically an ally but who is unable to help out at the moment despite being essentially strong. I'm wondering if there's a pointer to a solution there somewhere, because even if Saturn represents a new job, it's a good new job that's very probably circumstantially weak (i.e. it's in the 6th house). Saturn also rules the 11th - the money from the job, and so that money situation is essentially strong but circumstancially weakened. The Sun is also linking with Jupiter in the 11th, by aspect and by antiscia. I don't quite know who/what it signifies but I'm not sure it's a link I'd rely on to solve my money woes hehe. I'm not surprised you're trying to bridge to something new - I think the chart describes that very clearly.

There's something here that I can't quite put my finger on. I hope I haven't confused things - please discard anything I've written that has that effect! I wanted to ensure you could take these things - algol, triplicity when Moon changes signs, 6th house, etc - into account in case you haven't already.

Regards

H.
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

handn:
Quote:
Backed up by north node (dispositor: Saturn) 10th->11th. In my opinion, this chart is really shouting about money. The question comes (which obviously you don't need to answer publicly - it's your private life): is your current job good except for the money? If the money problem was sorted, would you be content to stay put? It looks to me like it's only the money that's the problem, that you want to move away from.

Handn,
Thanks for pointing all this stuff out, actually, I hadn't accounted for a lot of what you've added here. (I just love this forum, you get to see a whole new perspective to your chart!!)

The situation is very precarious. I work for a small company and the salary is very good. While I have a hundred mile roundtrip by car to come and get to work, I stayed with this job for 6 months because the economy is bad and the money was good. However, the problem is very serious, in that I think the owner of the company is in deep financial trouble, he owes at least 1.5 months salary to all of his employees, he apparently is owed money by his clients, (from which he would pay our salaries) but apparently this money (which hasn't come in, and we're not sure if it ever will - the owner could just be bluffing all of us) is not enough to cover what he owes us. So he wont' lay us off, so at least we can collect unemployment, and he's still telling us to come in to work, but we're not getting paid and may never get paid, hence the dilemma. What good is a good salary if you're not getting paid it?

At a personal level, this is very serious for me, since I have only enough money to sustain my current expenses for another two months. The job market really slows down in December due to Christmas and stuff, so I need to find another job real fast, regardless of whether or not this owner pays me what he owes. I have good qualifications and generally speaking have no trouble landing a job, BUT I have to get an interview first!! My line of work in not "6th house" type, so not sure why Saturn is in the 6th.

The current job itself is somewhat comfortable, so I may not have wanted to move right away if this situation was not afoot; but then again, the 100 mile r/t is laborious and I really would prefer to work for a larger company. This company is clausterphobic, so the move would have come eventually, but not in "desperate" mode as it is right now.

Quote:
Firstly, when the Moon changes signs it will go into Saturn's Triplicity, so that's nice to know - it's not going to worsen in its relationship with Saturn.

That is comforting, although I thought that the Moon would go into its fall?

I was actually contacted by a recruiter about a potentially good job opportunity and had all the requirements, and I was hoping this would work out, but she hasn't called back, which is rather disappointing.

So to reiterate, I think we are in agreement that Saturn is the "new" job - yes? But once again, I ask for your guidance, would you consider this perfection, even though the Moon is crossing sign boundaries?

Thanks very much.
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Taurus

Because I couldn't satisfactorily explain my reasoning I left a couple of things out of my last post. I'm still a bit stuck with them, and don't have any clear-cut answers.

At first I did think that Saturn represented a new job. But the more I looked at the chart, the more I came to think that it represents either your current job, or the general job situation irrespective of whether you stay put or move into something new, but I couldn't put my finger on why I thought that, and I prefer to set out my reasoning clearly and I'm frustrated that I couldn't and can't. I certainly don't want to confuse you or make things worse, so I feel very hesitant and trying to tread carefully.

In terms of your job's strength, I think that Saturn's placements etc are hinting that the general signification of 'the job' is perhaps not going to get better than it already has - Saturn has already changed sign, and isn't on the brink of a change of house - however I'm very tentative about this so please don't set it in stone, and again I want to emphasise that I'd prefer to be able to write down my reasoning step-by-step but haven't yet been able to pinpoint why it's formed this way in my mind. I also agree with the ethos of this forum that it's your view of the chart, as the one who cast it, that ought to stand front and centre. How it resonates with you is what counts the most and stands the most chance of things clicking into place for you.

Part of my reasoning is that I think the outer planets are pointing to the fact that the ocean you're swimming in is a tough one, so your room for manoeuvre is limited at this stage, hence Saturn in the 6th, ruling the 10th and 11th, and hey, the 12th too! Claustrophobic, I think, speaks to all of that too.

To me, this chart says that it's the boss's predicament and the climate that are the problem. Somewhat stating the obvious though.... not a lot of use except maybe in helping to say 'this is what it is'.

When the Moon changes to Gemini according to Ptolemy's table it won't be in Fall or Detriment (the Moon would be in its fall in Scorpio and detriment in Capricorn), however one thing I missed is that the Moon loses its essential dignity in Gemini (again, acc. to Ptolemy's table) and so becomes peregrine. Whilst the Moon has essential dignity in Taurus, being conjunct Algol and having been opposite the Sun etc, it wasn't and isn't in a great place. I can see the urgency in moving away from that into something new, hence the change of sign, however it's worth keeping in mind that while the Moon will be in Saturn's triplicity, it will be peregrine, and still decreasing in light.

From a technical point of view, I do personally think that perfection is possible after a change of sign, so long as the aspect takes place early after the change. I think that describes life, doesn't it? - Sometimes something needs to change before something can happen, so that's why I believe it's possible. I also think that astrology wouldn't show this aspect pattern if it didn't want you to see it. E.g. maybe you would've asked when the Moon was earlier in the sign and then it wouldn't have been within that trine with Saturn, but you asked when the trine is there - I don't feel the need to ignore such a thing, I feel the need to notice that symbolism and take it as it's shown - a change needs to come before the connection can be made. That's my take on it, very open to other views though.

In short, I think the chart isn't necessarily advising against finding a new job at all, I just have a persistent thought that it's pointing to a solution via your boss or someone equally influential. Wish I could explain the chart factors for that reasoning, other than just pointing to the 7th house and the Sun's relationship with Jupiter and Mars.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable will give you a different view that will help more, or maybe more will come to you as you let the chart 'percolate' and come back to it afresh.

Regards

H.
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janeg



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 98

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Taurus7,

Moon in 2nd - concern with personal money situation; Moon inconjunct (1°) Venus, L2, money matters are coming to a head (inconjunct).

Mars in 5th - feeling at risk (5th), Sun/Mercury conjunct (1°) separating square (2-3°) from Mars shows the reason.

Sun rules 6th, Mercury co-rules 6th (Virgo intercepted in 6th); 6th is conditions affecting employment, co-workers. Mercury rules 3rd (6th from 10th) and Sun 6th (9th from 10th) -- communications and public opinions expressed by the boss (Sun) have been hopeful (in Scorpio, 11th whole sign from 10th) but Mercury (employees) is literally being burnt by the Sun (boss). The conjunction is also inconjunct (1-2°) the Asc, so again, matters coming to a head.

Saturn rules the 10th and 11th (income from job) at 0 Libra in the 6th. Believe this shows the new job (0 deg = new conditions). It has just left Virgo, the conditions surrounding the existing job (see Mercury/Sun above).

Moon is applying to trine of Saturn, 5°; trine gives ease but Moon is in a Fixed sign (Taurus) so could be 5 weeks or 5 months. Moon and Saturn both have alot of dignity which may speed things up.

Best of luck in this matter, hope everything works out well for you.
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks much handn and janeg.

Quote:
I also think that astrology wouldn't show this aspect pattern if it didn't want you to see it. E.g. maybe you would've asked when the Moon was earlier in the sign and then it wouldn't have been within that trine with Saturn, but you asked when the trine is there - I don't feel the need to ignore such a thing, I feel the need to notice that symbolism and take it as it's shown - a change needs to come before the connection can be made. That's my take on it, very open to other views though.

I have a feeling it's going to be OK. I wish I could understand what the change is - maybe the new career path that I've been playing with for a while, which is more creative than the field I am in right now. It's rather unnerving, until I set things into motion. Thanks again.
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taurus7 wrote:
....I thought that the Moon would go into its fall?


Sorry, a very delayed response on this..... I think what you may be thinking of is the idea that in Gemini the Moon is afflicted by being in its 12th 'house' (taking Cancer as its 1st).

Personally I'm not convinced of the idea, but obviously if you've found it works in your horaries, or if you suspect that it might work, it's something to factor in.

Regards

H.
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Pete



Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 301
Location: Kinnelon, New Jersey, USA

Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:08 pm    Post subject: Question about a new job while in a job Reply with quote

Hi there T Very Happy

I thought I'd wade in with my response since I hate the thought that you're in dire straits yet again over a job predicament. (I well remember last November. The Scorpio season isn't your best is it?)

I can't really add very much to the excellent responses already posited. Suffice to say that I believe that the Moon's application by trine to Saturn, L10 & L11, will bring another job your way in 5 units of time. The Moon is fixed and succeedent, yet fast, so I am going to suggest 5 weeks. There is mutual reception here too: Saturn receives the Moon into term and face while the Moon receives Saturn into face. The M/R continues to hold good when the Moon enters Gemini to perfect the trine and speaking for myself I'd rather see Saturn receive the Moon into Triplicity than Term & Face, as I see this as a stronger tie.
On the subject of reception and perfection, Lilly has this to say on page 455 of C.A., in the section entitled "Of Government, Office, Dignity, Preferment, or any place of Command or Trust, whether attainable or not?" In my view this section speaks to your question.

Quote:
If the lord of the tenth receive the lord of the first or the Moon by any reception, or in any house, the matter will be effected with much content and profit.


Note that in this passage Lilly does not insist on application, just reception! In your chart you have both, which ought to bring about the above outcome even more effectively around the second week of December. Ok, your situation may become less "stable" and more "changeable" as the Moon moves out of exaltation and becomes peregrine but I don't see this as making much difference, for two reasons:

1. The trine perfects immediately, with reception.

2. Venus, lady of the 2nd house of substance is dignified and angular, and enjoys M/R with L 10-11. Your finances would hardly suffer under these conditions.

The position of Saturn in the 6th may at first blush appear to be an accidental debility, but it's equally possible that the 6th house describes the environment in which the company operates, eg healthcare, accident/injury insurance, to name but two. It looks like a well-established and respected company (Saturn exalted) that has just undergone some kind of new and better image or "re-invention" (recent sign change).

Good luck T, I hope things work out for you. Keep us posted ok? Very Happy
Cheers...

Pete
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete:
Quote:
Hi there T


There you are! I've been waiting for you to "wade in"... Smile

Quote:
I thought I'd wade in with my response since I hate the thought that you're in dire straits yet again over a job predicament. (I well remember last November. The Scorpio season isn't your best is it?)

Well, at least I'm not doing non-stop relationship horaries anymore...I have no doubt that you have fond remembrances of that phase in my life as well...Wink

Quote:
I can't really add very much to the excellent responses already posited.

Sure you can, stop being so modest..

Quote:
Suffice to say that I believe that the Moon's application by trine to Saturn, L10 & L11, will bring another job your way in 5 units of time.

Nice...

Quote:
The Moon is fixed and succeedent, yet fast, so I am going to suggest 5 weeks. There is mutual reception here too: Saturn receives the Moon into term and face while the Moon receives Saturn into face. The M/R continues to hold good when the Moon enters Gemini to perfect the trine and speaking for myself I'd rather see Saturn receive the Moon into Triplicity than Term & Face, as I see this as a stronger tie.

Sounds good to me -


Quote:
The position of Saturn in the 6th may at first blush appear to be an accidental debility, but it's equally possible that the 6th house describes the environment in which the company operates, eg healthcare, accident/injury insurance, to name but two. It looks like a well-established and respected company (Saturn exalted) that has just undergone some kind of new and better image or "re-invention" (recent sign change).

Well, the latest update to the situation is that I asked to be voluntarily laid off, so that at least I can collect unemployment. Meanwhile, the old company that I just left still owes me many thousand dollars, and I hope that I get that - I'm certainly legally entitled to it.
On another note, I was hoping to get a call for an interview with a major pharmaceutical company - I was hoping that would be Saturn in the 6th as per your description - but it didn't work out.

Regardless, I'm managing to maintain my sense of humour! You know I'm going to hold you to your word!! I like your judgement, I almost thought you had lost your touch (you made that awfully flimsy excuse of missing the collection bit in my last horary because of your sore back - remember?) , but I think you got it back again.. Thanks for wading in, as always. Laughing

T7
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete:
Quote:
I can't really add very much to the excellent responses already posited. Suffice to say that I believe that the Moon's application by trine to Saturn, L10 & L11, will bring another job your way in 5 units of time. The Moon is fixed and succeedent, yet fast, so I am going to suggest 5 weeks. There is mutual reception here too: Saturn receives the Moon into term and face while the Moon receives Saturn into face.

I'm still without a job Sad
Although I did get an interview on the exact day that the 6 week time frame ended with an Insurance company, they went with another candidate. Would this imply that out of sign perfections don't work? Can anyone find another reason that this horary ended up as a "No"? Could the 5 weeks indicate 5 months (that would be a serious problem....) Thanks.
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the chart:

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