Football Club History (foundation dates)

1
Hi all

Before I write again to another football club following Burnley Football club (see http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4816), has anybody got the foundation dates of the following clubs please? :

1) Birmingham City FC
2) Aston Villa
3) Stoke City
4) Everton
5) Wigan Athletic
6) Manchester City
7) Wolverhampton Wanderers
8. Glasgow Rangers
9) Fulham FC

and also any English Championship and European clubs' would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Gem on Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

2
Hi Gem,

I have only one definite foundation date and this is for Wigan Athletic - 9 May 1932.

I remember spending ages trying to find a date for Aston Villa and the nearest I got was March 1874. I experimented with a couple of dates and the one I'm currently using is the 3rd. Might be worth contacting the club for that one.

A while ago John started a thread on Man City where he mentioned several possible dates http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3657 The one I've always used is 16 April 1894 which has responded well to transits.

For Everton I use 20 Dec 1879 which was the date of their first game and has responded well to transits. Ditto Stoke - 8 Sep 1888. I realise these aren't much use to you if you're looking specifically for foundation dates though.

In the Championship I have West Brom - 20 Sep 1879 and Newcastle - 9 Dec 1892 but these might not be foundation dates. I'll try and check back on those and let you know.

Good luck with your researches :)

3
Ficina

Thank you very much indeed for the dates.
For Everton I use 20 Dec 1879 which was the date of their first game and has responded well to transits. Ditto Stoke - 8 Sep 1888. I realise these aren't much use to you if you're looking specifically for foundation dates though.
Hmmm. I've never looked at first match charts and I'm intriegued. As you said in the Burnley FC thread, we should experiment with both to see which works better.

4
Hello all,

I'm still reading the forum and catching up with the charts when I can.
In the fullness of transits, I'll be contributing on the games at some point :shock:

As for the formation of clubs, I have some details on all the English clubs listed, which I'll detail on separate postings when I dig them out.

A bit like Gem, before I found this site I was looking up formation charts, first game charts and first game at a new ground chart. I hope this thread will allow some thoughts on which charts appear to work best!!!!!!!!!

5
Birmingham

I have the following:

Formed in September 1875 from Holy Trinity Cricket Club. The team was called Small Heath Alliance.

First game November 1875 against Holte Wanderers

24/7/1888 Name change to Small Heath and became a Ltd company

Founder members of Division 2. First game home to Port Vale 3/9/1892.

March 1905 name change to Birmingham. Meeting held at Swan Hotel, Yardley.

First game at St Andrew's 26/12/1906.

Name change to Birmingham City 1/7/1945.

First league game away 31/8/1946 to Spurs
First home game 4/9/1946.

Any favourite dates from that list?

6
Hi John

Thanks for your input!
john wrote: Any favourite dates from that list?
Definitely:
Name change to Birmingham City 1/7/1945.
According to Wikipedia however, the name change took place in 1943. Have you got a source for this date?

Regarding home game, Everton (who were odds on faves) drew with Wolves yesterday, when the Sun in the first game chart given by Ficina was in partile square with transiting Saturn. I wonder if the first game chart is valid for home games only?? I'm not convinced about the validity of first away game chart.
I have some details on all the English clubs listed, which I'll detail on separate postings when I dig them out.
I'll eagerly await your digging them up :D

7
Ficina wrote:
Newcastle - 9 Dec 1892 but these might not be foundation dates. I'll try and check back on those and let you know.
The date I have for Newcastle is 22/12/1892 when the FA agreed to the name change (My source is either the official website or wikipedia).

Newcastle Utd FC Co Ltd was legalised/sonstituted on 6/9/1895.

8
Birmingham name change source:

Now I can find this but it won't be easy. When I was interested enough and had time I found myself in Birmingham one afternoon. I went in the library and dusted off an old history of Birmingham City FC which had this data. The author is listed but it's up in the attic, in a box, etc, etc..

9
Aston Villa:

founded in 1874.

First game was against a rugby club in March 1875. 15 a side. One half rugby the other association rules! This was played at Easter. According to a historian I spoke to this would almost certainly not have been Easter Sunday, as there was a Wesleyan connection. So the saturday was most likely. 29 March 1875. I'd be happy if someone could check this date as Easter saturday.

Moved to Villa Park in 1897. First game 1/9/1897.

10
Gem wrote:I'm not convinced about the validity of first away game chart.
In looking up several of these teams the first game tends to be at the start of a season, particularly in the early days when new leagues were starting, for example Birmingham and the other founders of the original League 2. How strong such a chart is, I'm not convinced of. But if that is the best there is and a team kicked off with their new identity 200 miles from home, I'd say it had some validity.

Which leads me to a preference for date of decision to form, date of first game, date of first league game then first game at the new home.

There has been quite a few ground changes in recent years. It probably does have some merit as a chart. How much and why I'm not quite sure. What I did toy with was rectifying the chart that I thought was most likely to be the relevant one (subjective of course).

The one that I thought it worked best was Bolton Wanderers. They met in a pub-I assumed evening. They moved to Burnden Park several years later and 84 years on they go the Reebok Stadium. Assuming an evening meeting gave a possible Aquarius rising chart and when they go to the Reebok we have Uranus over the ascendant. Foolproof-no, but a worthwhile starting point for rectifying a time and working from there.

11
john wrote: I found myself in Birmingham one afternoon. I went in the library and dusted off an old history of Birmingham City FC which had this data.
That's a nice way to get data :)
There has been quite a few ground changes in recent years. It probably does have some merit as a chart.
Their identity doesn't change... You have your natal chart and during the lifetime you may move houses but your natal chart is still valid and shows such potential changes ( club's founding chart). On the other hand I also believe the chart when you moved into your new house is valid. I think this chart has precedence over the first match whether home or away. Love to hear what others think.

a team kicked off with their new identity 200 miles from home, I'd say it had some validity.
I will ponder on this.