Question about my SR chart

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Hello all,

I have some questions about my 2009 SR, which was in April. Overall I thought the chart looked very positive. However, I have not yet started to feel the positive effects that are shown in my SR. I had thought that since the Sun was on an angle and in an angular house that the events would happen right away. It just doesn't seem to be the case, and I am experiencing a lot of continuation in the difficulties I've experienced for the past year. I am having a difficult Neptune transit (it is conj my Mars in the 7/8th house cusp while squaring my Venus), and it doesn't seem to be letting up at all. I had thought with the Sun/Moon trine in the SR that I would start to feel a little better, and with the sextiles of Neptune to my Sun and Merc I would have a sort of restoration of hope or faith. Not happening, and my disillusionment seems to continue as I just found out that I have been lied to by another 'friend' of mine in a big way.

My question is that I did my SR based on my birth location, which is Houston. I am actually living in New Orleans. When I do the SR for New Orleans, it pushes the Sun into the 6th (cadent) house indicating that the SR wouldn't really start taking effect until much later. Should I rely on my birth location or my actual location for the SR?

The Sun is placed on the Descendant, so I took that to mean that relationships would be a major focus this year. That is certainly the case, for both good and bad. I also thought that Moon opposite Neptune could mean that I finally "get real" and stop being so trusting so that I wouldn't get hurt as badly by other people's lies (and that is a major way this Neptune transit has manifested for me, a lot of lies by different people!). I was hoping that Neptune and Jupiter in the 5th would be a good thing.

I thought a red flag in the chart was that the chart ruler is Venus, and it is retrograde and afflicted. Maybe this is what I am feeling now, rather than the more positive things from the trines and sextile? Maybe I have to get through the events represented by the Venus Rx in order to get to the positive stuff? The Venus Rx looks like it is transformative in nature because it is squaring Pluto.

I do realize that Saturn is prominent in the chart, and maybe that is another reason of why I do not feel very positive right now. Don't get me wrong, I have made some wonderful progress emotionally this year, but I am just not feeling, well... happy.

Does anyone see something that perhaps I am not seeing? When can I expect to feel better, if that is possible this year?
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You really need to look at your natal chart in conjunction with the SR to get a meaningful read.

When I have Sun angular, I have accidents and surgery - like clockwork.

This year and next I have Moon angular, and that's doing no favours for my health either - it's my 8 ruler natally and placed in 6 natally.

So where are the natal planets and angles, what are they doing, and how does that connect to your SR?

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Olivia wrote:
When I have Sun angular, I have accidents and surgery - like clockwork.
Wow, that is interesting. What does the Sun rule in your birth chart?

Okay, I attached my natal, but just looking at it I can see some conjunctions between the SR and my natal.

My SR MC is almost exactly conjunct my natal Saturn, and Saturn is a prominent part in both by natal and my SR.

SR Venus is exactly conjunct natal Mercury in my 9th.

SR Neptune in the 5th is exactly conjunct natal Mars on my 7/8th house cusp, with SR Chiron ready to join them. Ouch.

The SR Moon falls in my natal 1st house, and in the SR my 3rd house is rising.

I am guessing that the most significant things are SR MC conj Saturn and the SR Neptune in the 5th conj my natal Mars in 7th. It looks like relationships are a major focus, but that I will have many restrictions as well or too focused on work to have a relationship. Much to the dismay of my natal 7th house Moon. :???: The SR Moon falling in my natal 1st- does that mean that who I am or how I understand myself is changing? That would certainly fit.

Still, it looks like there should be some positive things happening with the trines, but how do I figure out timing? Should I have used my actual location or my birth location?
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Last edited by janders36 on Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sun rules 9 in my chart both by quadrant and whole sign - but it's in 6, peregrine, and the only aspect it makes is an out-of-sign conjunction to Mercury (which rules 7). And Mercury is severely afflicted on all sides.

I think it may be with both Sun and Moon in 6, and Moon ruling 8, that does it. Which doesn't bode well for this year, either, and I have the lunar return from hell this month.

Anyway, your chart is a little small to see, but you're getting there. You also want to check if any natal aspects are repeating, or if a natal trine is turning into a square, or such.

Location is controversial - I use the place I'm at on my birthday as it seems to give best results for me, but a lot of people use the birth place.

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When I finally took off with astrology in a major way in 2003 after so many years of off-and-on I quickly knew that solar and lunar returns were the way I had to go ? the idea of them grabbed me. I haven't decided yet what to use to establish framework, such as primary directions, firdaria and profections, so I will comment here without reference to any other 'structural material'. Just some comments in search of a structure.


With Leo rising in your natal chart solar returns would seem to be especially significant, so anything involving the Sun in both charts would be important.

I've settled on always starting with and focusing on the birth location. I do believe that return charts can be approached (momentarily) as stand-alone charts, but they must ultimately refer to the natal chart. The Houston return chart sharply brings the natal Sun-Saturn square into play: natal/return Sun conjunct the return Desc and natal Saturn conjunct the return MC. I would say that the natal square is being activated by the return AS-DESC and MC-IC axes, and that natal configuration should be explored. Initially I wouldn't spend much time looking specifically at relationships (Sun conjunct the return Desc.), but simply the natal Sun-Saturn square and its natal house placements. The return chart says it's a Sun-Saturn year ? that life-long theme is up for consideration. So I am getting away here from the stand-alone return chart and thinking of it primarily as a natal chart activator.

With the natal Aries Sun important both as the sect light of a diurnal chart and as ASC ruler, the condition of Mars in all your return charts will be important (even more so because of Aries Mercury, Jupiter and the natal MC). The poor guy is a having a tough time of it this year ? out of sect in a diurnal chart, in a cadent house, no essential dignity and so nearly perfectly opposed Saturn. Is he feeling weak and frustrated? Are you? Maybe we can add the fact the his return Pisces placement has no aspect relationship to the return ASC, natal ASC or his natal placement in Aquarius. So your return/natal Sun has a rather lost and ineffective Mars. I suppose that could point to frustration with 10th house career, recognition, and getting things done.

But I've merely pointed a few things out for consideration. I'm not saying that all things point to a rotten year!

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I apologize guys, I fixed the small chart and put up one that is hopefully easier to read.
Kirk wrote:I would say that the natal square is being activated by the return AS-DESC and MC-IC axes, and that natal configuration should be explored. Initially I wouldn't spend much time looking specifically at relationships (Sun conjunct the return Desc.), but simply the natal Sun-Saturn square and its natal house placements. The return chart says it's a Sun-Saturn year ? that life-long theme is up for consideration.
This is very much true. You probably noticed that my natal Saturn is the apex to my Yod. There has been a lot of pain involved as I have come to grapple with the meaning and reconciliation of my Yod this past year. I guess the emphasis on Saturn sq Sun this year is just highlighting that.

I have made several life changing decisions in the past year. Got a divorce after 12 years of marriage (Neptune exiting my 7th in transit!), started Grad school, moved 500 miles away from family. It has all triggered a complete reassessment of who I am. Also, tr Saturn is working on my 2/3rd house cusp, meaning that self-worth and communication issues have come to the forefront. Saturn and I have become well acquainted this past year, although I can't say my Aries Sun was pleased to meet him at first. :-T But like everything Saturn does, the hard work should pay off as I learn to deal with my natal Saturn issues.
Kirk wrote: The poor guy is a having a tough time of it this year ? out of sect in a diurnal chart, in a cadent house, no essential dignity and so nearly perfectly opposed Saturn. Is he feeling weak and frustrated? Are you?
Goodness, yes. Transiting Neptune has really done a number on my Mars in the past year. I have noticed a very uncharacteristic lack of energy and drive. Even to the point that I have NO idea what I will be doing one year from now. That is extremely unusual for me because I always knew where I was headed in the past. It seems that now I am being taught to live in the present, rather than thinking of future plans. I have also been delving into Buddhism. I have studying it off and on for close to 10 years, but the past year it has been more important to me than ever. An appropriate Neptune transit response, I think. I've noticed I am much more passive, even to the point that I don't always defend myself even when I should. This is very perplexing for an Aries Sun/Leo Rising, and I hardly seem to recognize myself sometimes. I can only hope that after the transit I will get my 'fiery' self back, but maybe with more wisdom and patience.
Kirk wrote: But I've merely pointed a few things out for consideration. I'm not saying that all things point to a rotten year.
Thanks so much for your insight Kirk, and you too Olivia! I am still wondering when some of the more positive things in the chart will start to take effect. Or maybe it has and I am still under so much Saturn and Neptune pressure that I am being too pessimistic to realize it?

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Should I rely on my birth location or my actual location for the SR?
If you research this question, you'll find plenty of advocacy for both locations. I prefer location at the time of the return, but I have problems with racing to another location, sitting around waiting for your return to take place then racing back to where you live. Maybe that works, but that is different than happening in the normal course of one's life to be at a certain location at the time of the return. Whichever you choose be consistent. Don't use your birth location when that chart looks good and your current location next year if you like that one better. Keep track of events to see which one may be more accurate.
I am still wondering when some of the more positive things in the chart will start to take effect.
Are you doing anything to bring them about? Things rarely "just happen." They can, but even lottery winners have to buy a ticket. Prediction does not bestow the luxury of sitting around waiting for events to take place. If the chart indicates the start of a new relationship (does anyone use astrology for anything else?), the native can't sit around in the house waiting for Mr or Ms Right to knock on the door the day Venus transits their ASC ruler. We have to do something.

Solar returns or any predictive technique need to be looked at in that framework: This is a good year to start a new job so I better go and get one.

As for timing the return, there are several methods of directing the chart or "timing" the occurrence of events, but I wouldn't bet too heavily on any of them.

Tom

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I am aware of the fact that many people studying/interested in astrology
are dismissive of "racing" to another location on their birthday, but I have yet to see their objections expressed in an objective, thoughtful way. Have they studied the matter, or are they reacting from personal bias and disposition? Isn't this exactly what astrologers have to fight against all the time?

Racing around is never a good idea, and people should certainly study solar returns and how they operate in their life before they pick out locations and think that everything will fall into place. Then they should seriously and systematically study what is happeninjg to them during the year. Solar returns are best understood as illustrating internal events anyway. This is quite different advice than saying, "aw. I don't think there's anything to it"...or, "you're cheating fate." I would have thought astrologers would offer encouragement to anyone wanting to test the principles of relocation. Do we really know everything there is to know here?

Janders, I think you might be experiencing the effects of too-high expectations. Not that your year will be horrible, but when I looked at your SR I saw it as rather difficult. An angular planet is not necessarily great news, especially 7th house....you could be oppressed by other peoples needs and demands. Also, venus retro is a drag, even though you can learn a lot by retreating from the social scene and focusing on one or two relationships. Hardest of all is saturn in the 12th---you feel responsibility for everything and everyone. Moon is trine sun but opposition neptune and jupiter, as you pointed out, deception is still occurring. I would suggest, with your "unemotional" 11th house moon trine sun a good use of your time would be studying psychology. When I had a 7th house sun and mercury I learned everything I could about borderline personality disorder...it really helped me detach from a difficult situation so I could still be "helpful." The best thing about that year was I think I learned true empathy, but it was not especially fun.

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I am aware of the fact that many people studying/interested in astrology
are dismissive of "racing" to another location on their birthday, but I have yet to see their objections expressed in an objective, thoughtful way. Have they studied the matter, or are they reacting from personal bias and disposition? Isn't this exactly what astrologers have to fight against all the time?
My purpose in using the word "racing" was illustrative. I was not making a case and therefore didn't feel it was necessary to explain further. Yet it is a prefectly appropriate word to describe what I was describing.

There is nothing but personal opinion available on this subject. Some people claim it can make a difference others say it can't. Deliberately heading or racing to one position or another to achieve benefits from a solar return would require one to believe that the planet's influence is somehow material in nature and is injected to the native at the time of his solar return and the quality is based on the location. I don't know any astrologers who believe that. Furthermore, which house system will produce the desired results and which won't? A nicely posited Venus in the 5th in one system could be Venus in the 6th in another although the native is standing in the same place. How do we handle that?

We could take the above as arguments against using any other place but the birth place and that, frankly, makes sense to me. I've just seen better results in most, but not all, cases where the chart is cast for the native's location at the time of the return. If there is a reason for everything, there is a reason for his being there at that time.

Tom

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Tom wrote:Are you doing anything to bring them about? Things rarely "just happen." They can, but even lottery winners have to buy a ticket.
Well... I can say that I am doing the best I can. It has been a really hard couple of years and so I have been seeing a therapist regularly since last Fall. My therapist made the comment to me recently that she has a lot of hope that I will come out of this okay because she rarely sees patients who are so pro-active about learning the lessons they are supposed to be learning and trying to be happy. I go to therapy, I push myself to live outside my own comfort zone to open myself up to positive things, I read about psychology and how to make it through transitional periods, I am attending grad school, etc. I am doing whatever is in my power to try to bring about positive change, and don't get me wrong- I have had some positive things happen as far as school and work. But I am not happy, no matter how much I tell myself that I what I have right now is enough. I realize I'm in a heavy transitional period, and I realize I am still in mourning for my marriage (he cheated), and I know I miss my family since I am in a new city alone. But I can't seem to pull myself out from under the weight of these Saturn/Neptune transits and I am just getting very tired. I just want to know when I can expect healing to start to occur, because over a year of this has really started to take its toll and I feel like I am reaching my limit. I had thought this SR showed a return of faith or hope, so I am surprised to know that wasn't the case. It is really hard to rebuild your hope when people you care about lie to you, and I am talking big lies.
Janders, I think you might be experiencing the effects of too-high expectations
I see where you are coming from, but the only thing I really expected was that I would feel better by now. I just want to be happy again and I want the deception in my life to stop. This does sound a lot like Saturn in the 12th issues and an afflicted Neptune in the 5th. But I just want to tell the Universe "enough already." One person can only handle so much.

Thanks for listening and giving your opinions. Looking into the chart further like this has confirmed that using my birth place as the location for my SR had to have been correct.

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But I am not happy, no matter how much I tell myself that I what I have right now is enough.
My gut tells me this is not going to be resolved with a solar return. I mean a SR might show when there might be a turn around or a breakthrough in therapy, but this sounds more like something deeper. If you're doing all you say you are, then things will break your way eventually. It's a tougher road for some people than it is for others. Keep at it. You'll be fine.

Tom