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Martin's book about PD
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:53 pm    Post subject: Martin's book about PD Reply with quote

I downloaded the article and I liked a lot and I'm thinking to buy the book, if the price for euro buyers is not very high Smile You know how much is it Liber Astronomiae, true?

I'm curious because I have my idea- surely wrong- that everyone has his/her own method.... Smile

Margherita
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Deb
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It surely won't be too high as the price in sterling seems very reasonable (approx £12).
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margherita



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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
It surely won't be too high as the price in sterling seems very reasonable (approx £12).


It looks like that, I'm happy because the book seems worthy, and then I would read another source than Kolev, I like to compare things to have my idea.

Thanks for the kind reply,

Margherita
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm curious because I have my idea- surely wrong- that everyone has his/her own method.... Smile


Yes, marguerita, and NOW everybody has his own method, like topocentric in mundo, in zodiac cum latitude in regiomontanus, etc, etc.

And everybody method´s is so much better than everyone else, and gives perfect results, and can rectify a chart to a tenth of a second and blah, blah, blah.

But as we see the traditional sources, we perceive that differences in method were not so great:
mainly used ptolomeic model, with zodiacal directions.
there were no "converse" directions
prediction follows delineation,
you direct only the hylegical places
etc, etc, etc
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carriere.francois



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Martin's book about PD Reply with quote

Gjiada wrote:
I downloaded the article and I liked a lot and I'm thinking to buy the book, if the price for euro buyers is not very high Smile You know how much is it Liber Astronomiae, true?
Hello Margherita,

Can you tell me, please, where you got Martin's article? I would like to read it, since I am anxiously waiting for the book too! Very Happy

Also, does anyone know when the book should be available to order from Wessex Astrologer editor?

Thank you.

UPDATE. I found the article on Skyscript's articles page...
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Deb
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi François

It is advertised on the home page, and in the little box marked 'latest articles' in the left margin of this forum. The direct link is:

http://skyscript.co.uk/primaries.html

Regards
Deb
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carriere.francois



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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
Hi François

It is advertised on the home page, and in the little box marked 'latest articles' in the left margin of this forum. The direct link is:

http://skyscript.co.uk/primaries.html

Regards
Deb
Hello Deb,

Thank you for the link, it gave me the opportunity to go back and to see it was possible to pre-order the book at Wessex Wink
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:

But as we see the traditional sources, we perceive that differences in method were not so great:
mainly used ptolomeic model, with zodiacal directions.
there were no "converse" directions
prediction follows delineation,
you direct only the hylegical places
etc, etc, etc


To be honest I would compare what they do in CieloeTerra, and surely they are not modern, I tried to do the same with the new software Morinus, it was not easy...

But yes, they do the things you mention. I'm hoping in some revelation, maybe because I cannot understand Placidus method of zodiacal directions, I find very difficult to grasp, I surely will buy the book...

Margherita
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:
But as we see the traditional sources, we perceive that differences in method were not so great:
mainly used ptolomeic model, with zodiacal directions.
there were no "converse" directions
prediction follows delineation,
you direct only the hylegical places
etc, etc, etc

It depends on how you define 'traditional', of course. Regiomontanus directions were pretty much the norm in late Renaissance astrology (used by Lilly, Morin, and many others), often including latitude. And even earlier, not that many seem actually to have followed Ptolemy in directing only the hylegiacals. Ar-Rijal (Abenragel) definitely directed all the planets, and there are similar indications in Sahl. Morin and Lilly used all the planets, too, and Placidus complained that it was a common practice.

You are absolutely right about the 'converse' directions (against the primary motion), though. As far as I have been able to make out, they were invented some time in the 19th century, possibly by a misunderstanding of older sources. (I have actually found one example in Gaurico's work, but I am inclined to believe it was a miscalculation.)
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yuzuru



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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It depends on how you define 'traditional', of course.


In the case of PD´s, my personal definition means "pre-placidus"
Lala Happy
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:

In the case of PD´s, my personal definition means "pre-placidus"
Lala Happy


Oh mioddio Tongue Out

Margherita
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carriere.francois



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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin,

While I am waiting for the book to arrive, I have a question. A French astrologer, a former student of Denis Labouré, wrote a booklet on solar returns in 2005, where he uses divisor (the bound of directed Ascendant) and co-divisor (the last aspect of directed Ascendant), plus other things, such as transits "according" to Abu'Mashar (house counted in whole signs, from the sign a planet is located and from their rulership signs). He is unclear for the Periods he mentions (he talks about Ptolemaic ages and possibly about ascensional time -where I have to check-, but I would prefer the Decennials, for instance). Since it is rather "concentrated" (20 pages), I feel it is not as complete as I wished. Do such things are covered in your book? (Or where could such things can be found?) Thank you.
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yuzuru



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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Joseph Crane´s book: Astrological roots, covers some hellenistic time lords methods like decennials, aphesis from fortuna, ages of man, and ascensional times of planets (acc Valens).

But, besides the early circumambulations (peripatos) I don´t see the connection of these methods with PDs.
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carriere.francois



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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:
Well, Joseph Crane´s book: Astrological roots, covers some hellenistic time lords methods like decennials, aphesis from fortuna, ages of man, and ascensional times of planets (acc Valens).

But, besides the early circumambulations (peripatos) I don´t see the connection of these methods with PDs.
Hello Yuzuru,

Yes indeed, I have to read Crane's book. On the other, the booklet I refered to, refers also on Junctinus treatise on solar returns and its sources, which might be Abu'mashar... So, I will wait for Martin's book and order J. Crane's Roots. Thank you!
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margherita



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Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Francois,

carriere.francois wrote:


Yes indeed, I have to read Crane's book. On the other, the booklet I refered to, refers also on Junctinus treatise on solar returns and its sources, which might be Abu'mashar... So, I will wait for Martin's book and order J. Crane's Roots. Thank you!


As Yuzuru told you the last part is about some hellenistic techniques, but be careful because it's a book for beginners, I mean, a nice book and clearly written, but... for beginners.

Margherita
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