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margherita
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: Rome, Italy
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: Martin's book about PD |
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I downloaded the article and I liked a lot and I'm thinking to buy the book, if the price for euro buyers is not very high  You know how much is it Liber Astronomiae, true?
I'm curious because I have my idea- surely wrong- that everyone has his/her own method....
Margherita
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Deb
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| It surely won't be too high as the price in sterling seems very reasonable (approx £12). |
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margherita
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Deb wrote: | | It surely won't be too high as the price in sterling seems very reasonable (approx £12). |
It looks like that, I'm happy because the book seems worthy, and then I would read another source than Kolev, I like to compare things to have my idea.
Thanks for the kind reply,
Margherita
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yuzuru
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm curious because I have my idea- surely wrong- that everyone has his/her own method.... Smile |
Yes, marguerita, and NOW everybody has his own method, like topocentric in mundo, in zodiac cum latitude in regiomontanus, etc, etc.
And everybody method´s is so much better than everyone else, and gives perfect results, and can rectify a chart to a tenth of a second and blah, blah, blah.
But as we see the traditional sources, we perceive that differences in method were not so great:
mainly used ptolomeic model, with zodiacal directions.
there were no "converse" directions
prediction follows delineation,
you direct only the hylegical places
etc, etc, etc
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carriere.francois
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Martin's book about PD |
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| Gjiada wrote: | | I downloaded the article and I liked a lot and I'm thinking to buy the book, if the price for euro buyers is not very high You know how much is it Liber Astronomiae, true? |
Hello Margherita,
Can you tell me, please, where you got Martin's article? I would like to read it, since I am anxiously waiting for the book too! 
Also, does anyone know when the book should be available to order from Wessex Astrologer editor?
Thank you.
UPDATE. I found the article on Skyscript's articles page...
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Deb
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| Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hi François
It is advertised on the home page, and in the little box marked 'latest articles' in the left margin of this forum. The direct link is:
http://skyscript.co.uk/primaries.html
Regards
Deb |
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carriere.francois
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Deb wrote: | Hi François
It is advertised on the home page, and in the little box marked 'latest articles' in the left margin of this forum. The direct link is:
http://skyscript.co.uk/primaries.html
Regards
Deb |
Hello Deb,
Thank you for the link, it gave me the opportunity to go back and to see it was possible to pre-order the book at Wessex 
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margherita
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 841
Location: Rome, Italy
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| yuzuru wrote: |
But as we see the traditional sources, we perceive that differences in method were not so great:
mainly used ptolomeic model, with zodiacal directions.
there were no "converse" directions
prediction follows delineation,
you direct only the hylegical places
etc, etc, etc |
To be honest I would compare what they do in CieloeTerra, and surely they are not modern, I tried to do the same with the new software Morinus, it was not easy...
But yes, they do the things you mention. I'm hoping in some revelation, maybe because I cannot understand Placidus method of zodiacal directions, I find very difficult to grasp, I surely will buy the book...
Margherita
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Martin Gansten
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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Location: Malmö, Sweden
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| yuzuru wrote: | But as we see the traditional sources, we perceive that differences in method were not so great:
mainly used ptolomeic model, with zodiacal directions.
there were no "converse" directions
prediction follows delineation,
you direct only the hylegical places
etc, etc, etc |
It depends on how you define 'traditional', of course. Regiomontanus directions were pretty much the norm in late Renaissance astrology (used by Lilly, Morin, and many others), often including latitude. And even earlier, not that many seem actually to have followed Ptolemy in directing only the hylegiacals. Ar-Rijal (Abenragel) definitely directed all the planets, and there are similar indications in Sahl. Morin and Lilly used all the planets, too, and Placidus complained that it was a common practice.
You are absolutely right about the 'converse' directions (against the primary motion), though. As far as I have been able to make out, they were invented some time in the 19th century, possibly by a misunderstanding of older sources. (I have actually found one example in Gaurico's work, but I am inclined to believe it was a miscalculation.) |
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steven
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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A "converse" direction is in fact something that has happened before the birth
If I direct, the ascendant (20 Aquarius) to say Mars at 29 Aquarius, the "direction", (as Martin points out in his first chapter), is only apparant and it is in fact Primary Motion carrying Mars to the degree of the Ascendant. So there is no such animal as directing that same ascendant to say to Saturn in 2 Aquarius. If we say the Ascendant is carried to Saturn by Primary Motion, then it would be called directing Saturn to the Ascendant where the ascendant is no longer the significator but would instead be the promittor (if that were possible).
I for one am looking forward to the release of Martin's book and have already ordered a copy.
Steven |
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yuzuru
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It depends on how you define 'traditional', of course. |
In the case of PD´s, my personal definition means "pre-placidus"
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margherita
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: Rome, Italy
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| yuzuru wrote: |
In the case of PD´s, my personal definition means "pre-placidus"
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Oh mioddio 
Margherita
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carriere.francois
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Martin,
While I am waiting for the book to arrive, I have a question. A French astrologer, a former student of Denis Labouré, wrote a booklet on solar returns in 2005, where he uses divisor (the bound of directed Ascendant) and co-divisor (the last aspect of directed Ascendant), plus other things, such as transits "according" to Abu'Mashar (house counted in whole signs, from the sign a planet is located and from their rulership signs). He is unclear for the Periods he mentions (he talks about Ptolemaic ages and possibly about ascensional time -where I have to check-, but I would prefer the Decennials, for instance). Since it is rather "concentrated" (20 pages), I feel it is not as complete as I wished. Do such things are covered in your book? (Or where could such things can be found?) Thank you.
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yuzuru
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Joseph Crane´s book: Astrological roots, covers some hellenistic time lords methods like decennials, aphesis from fortuna, ages of man, and ascensional times of planets (acc Valens).
But, besides the early circumambulations (peripatos) I don´t see the connection of these methods with PDs.
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carriere.francois
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| yuzuru wrote: | Well, Joseph Crane´s book: Astrological roots, covers some hellenistic time lords methods like decennials, aphesis from fortuna, ages of man, and ascensional times of planets (acc Valens).
But, besides the early circumambulations (peripatos) I don´t see the connection of these methods with PDs. |
Hello Yuzuru,
Yes indeed, I have to read Crane's book. On the other, the booklet I refered to, refers also on Junctinus treatise on solar returns and its sources, which might be Abu'mashar... So, I will wait for Martin's book and order J. Crane's Roots. Thank you!
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