New Challenge Answers

1
OK ladies rule. I?ll do this one at a time. First although I would love to lay claim to some sort of special insight and ability that caused me to carefully select the non-murderers? charts in order to make this more difficult and interesting; that?s not true. The truth is I just grabbed at some in my files and it turns out that had I been deliberately looking for charts to make this more difficult some of these work quite nicely. Sad to say I didn?t do that. The fact that 3 of the 5 have Cancer rising is just coincidence. In fact I had a sixth chart to put up, but I was having so much trouble getting the charts on the forum (I think I have that mastered now) that I accidentally put up the same chart twice. Rather than play with it and find another, I just deleted that one. I?ll use it another time. Five might be a good number anyway.

Secondly, I wish to thank everyone who has and will continue to participate. This exercise turned out to create more interest than I expected. It is fun and if we can?t have fun with our astrology, then why bother with it at all?

Third I wish to give credit where it is due. The original idea for this sort of thing came from Deb. She as once asked to do something like this and thought it might be fun for others to try.

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By [URL=http://profile.imageshack.us/us

The revelation will occur in no particular order, so the fact that I am not starting with Chart 1 does not mean that chart 1 is the murderer although it could be. We?ll start with Chart No. 2. Chart 2 is one I would not have put up if I had thought about it. I already used this chart as a mystery chart a couple of years ago, but in that case I used the outer planets. This is the chart of Ed Wood Jr. - arguably the worst Hollywood director of all time. Wood is a nice candidate for a murderer because his ASC ruler, Venus is in such horrible shape. She is in fall, in the 12th. If Wood is guilty of anything, though, he is guilty of bad taste. He wrote and directed horrible movies, but he managed to get them in theaters. He ended up broke and alcoholic writing pornography and captions for silent pornographic films.

Venus though is ruled by Mercury with whom she is in mutual reception. Mercury is not badly placed in Libra in the 2nd house. Whether or not he is combust depends on whether or not we use sign lines to make that determination. Venus also lacks contact with the malefics. Contact with them might make Woods a nasty character. As it turns out he was had a few offbeat characteristics in that he liked to wear women?s underwear and make bad horror movies. He is in some ways a tragic figure, but not a criminal much less our murderer.


Those who may have picked chart 2 are free to try again

Tom
Last edited by Tom on Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2
I hasten to add that I suggested the idea but I have no idea what charts Tom has used. Also, the one time I tried this before was an eye opener for how bad I was at this, and how nearly everyone's chart can look like a murderer's if you start to suspect them of it :)

But for now I am buoyed by the news that no 4 is still in there ...

3
nearly everyone's chart can look like a murderer's if you start to suspect them of it
So true. Yes it does make you somewhat paranoid. It would have been fun to have my own chart in there and have people give a detailed analysis of why I was a natural born killer. :bl

5
Probably chart no 3 is Tom?s Grandma
Nah Grandma was born Oct 23, 1895 Newark NJ. Time unknown. That's not one of these charts.

Tom

PS Grandpa was born Sept 27, 1895 Newark NJ, time unknown. Leave him out too. ;-)

6
Gosh, I can not believe I pointed Ed Wood's chart as that of a murderer. I just love the character...

Well, gonna keep trying. As I said, number 1 and 3 are my other suspects, although I lean towards 1 now that Steven pointed it. I know, it's lame, but the conditions of 3 are too generic to make a murderer, and although that was more of a gut feeling when I looked into number 1, it did appear as a strange chart among "normal" ones. I hope I'm not wrong on this guess.

And I hope there is no butler chart among those.

7
All of those who picked No. 1 forget it - you lose!

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The above is chart No. 1. The chart belongs to, Bob, right now age 63, a man I work with. I doubt he?s been in trouble with the law, although he can be so nervous at times that one might think he was hiding something. Another co-worker once observed ?It?s like every day is the worst day of his life.?

He?s a good guy, married, with two grown children. Venus rules his MC and she is in the 8th house in a fixed sign. He has, in effect, worked for the same company in the same area all of his adult life, the credit department ? an 8th house sort of work if there ever was one. I say same company ?in effect? because the original company he worked for was sold to another. His paycheck changed names. He manages to keep the past due accounts to a bare minimum.

The Moon and Saturn are in a mutual reception. Moon is co-ruler of the 7th and Saturn co-rules 1 and rules 2. He?s been married to the same woman for more than 30 years I?m sure. She has had more than her share of health problems, though. Jupiter is at the bendings being in partile square to the nodal axis. Someone familiar with that configuration may wish to comment as Jupiter is Lord ASC. Jupiter is also in a mutual reception by exaltation with Saturn. Saturn plays a big role in this chart.

The significators of the manners are probably Saturn and Mercury. Like a lot of things in this chart, they are not well connected Mercury in his own sign is independent and he makes no aspect to the Moon or to Saturn or to Jupiter, Lord ASC for that matter. Mercury is connected to the Moon by night rulership of air and the Moon is in mutual reception with Saturn. Mercury?s next aspect is to Saturn. Ptolemy is not kind to this combination particularly since Saturn is in detriment. Some of his qualities that I found accurate are ?familiar with business,? ?laborious,? and seemingly ?void of enjoyment.? Some of the other things may be true, but I don?t know him that well to say for sure.

Bob is not our murderer.

9
yuzuru wrote:
Please don't tell poor Bob I called him an assassin
I am sure he will be one day, Steven
Or at least this is what I am going to say if chart no 3 is not the killer


:P
:lol: This comment really made me laugh...Yuzuru,it's like as if you've actually written what I told you(because this was also my first thought when I read Steven's comment). :lol:
I mean, honestly, it's hard to believe that Steven got something wrong. If this man still hasn't shot someone, that doesn't mean he won't.
Hope no one misunderstands me, just joking. :)
Anyway, Steven, as usual, wrote great delineation of the chart - it was so persuasive that I also sided with him on chart no 1, without trying to delineate any of those myself.
Greetings for all of you guys.

BTW - great idea, Tom. Keep up the magnificent work :'

10
Thanks for the kind words Cor. To continue ...

Getting down to the nitty gritty. Charts three four and five are left. One of these, obviously is the murderer but how many of you are aware that if you chose chart number 5, you chose the chart of a murder victim?


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Chart 5 is that of actress Sharon Tate who was murdered by members of the Manson Family on August 9, 1969. Again I didn?t think this out and if I had to do it over I probably wouldn?t have used this chart in this way, but by the time I had my misgivings, it was too late.

Sharon Tate?s temperament comes out strongly phlegmatic with a touch of melancholy. It is a cold chart. In her youth she is described by nearly everyone who knew her as very shy. She had few friends and none that lasted long. She noted that her shyness was often misconstrued as ?aloofness? and this may be due in part to her beauty. ?What could she possibly have to be shy about?? might be the thoughts of some. Her shyness and diffidence do match her temperament.

She was turned down for some big roles early in her career because of her lack of self-confidence and shyness. She tried out for an important role in The Cincinnati Kid starring Steve McQueen. She did well enough in small TV roles and other small movie roles to be given another chance, and those chances weren?t hurt by her stunning good looks. She received some good reviews for comedic work, but today her movie career is largely defined by her role in an overly melodramatic The Valley of the Dolls a book and screenplay she supposedly didn?t like.

In August of 1969, while her husband Roman Polanski was in Europe, she and six friends were savagely murdered by members of Charles Manson?s ?family.? She was due to give birth in two weeks. All members of the killing party were subsequently captured, tried, convicted and sentenced to death. However, the California Supreme Court overturned the state?s death penalty law and each prisoner had his or her death sentence commuted to life imprisonment. Each one has since come up for parole and to date, none have been released.

This may be due in part to the efforts first of Tate?s mother and later her two sisters who worked tirelessly for victims? rights and to keep the murderer?s in jail. Tate?s mother, father and one of her sisters are deceased. The work continues through her older sister Debra. If we look at the 4th house in Tate?s chart we see the ruler, Venus is in the 8th. What Sharon Tate is mostly associated with is her death, but her real legacy may be in the area of gaining justice for the victims of violent crimes.

The part of death falls in the 4th house and is ruled by Mars, the planet of violence. If we could find evidence of a violent death in this chart, it might cause one to conclude that this was a murderer?s chart and the murderer died as a result of his crimes. But Sharon Tate never hurt anyone in her life.

OF course no one participating could do her solar return for 1969; it is still interesting to look at. If we cast it for Los Angeles, where she was living at the time, we see the cardinal angels repeated. The 4th house in the nativity is on the 1st in the return (the end coming to the native). Also Jupiter sits on the ASC of the return as he does in the nativity. The return has the malefic south node on the return ASC.

Tate?s life ended in tragedy through no fault of her own. We are down to two remaining charts.

11
She had SAturn as ruler of 7th and 8th in the 12th sign, retrograde.

Saturn has triplicity in gemini. And there is a greek aphorism that Saturn in the 12th, in a masculine sign during the day is victory over enemies. Apparently that wasn?t the case.

Mars in the 6th could be also a factor ?

I am disappointed with her Jupiter. I would expect that a strong angular and exalted Jupiter (even being retrograde) would protect the native from this kind of evil harm.
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com

12
I am disappointed with her Jupiter. I would expect that a strong angular and exalted Jupiter (even being retrograde) would protect the native from this kind of evil harm.
Let me give the data:

Sharon Tate
Jan 24, 1943
5:47 PM CWT
Dallas Texas, USA


Jupiter is disposited by the Moon, Lady ASC, in the sign of Jupiter's detriment. Saturn is in the 11th house, but 12th sign. Saturn rules the 8th house of death indicating death with or as a result of friends.

Saturn, natal lord 8, is in mutual reception with Mercury ruler of the 12th of secret enemies in the house of open enemies. This indicates death at the hands of enemies as opposed to accident or disease.

There were seven people killed at this house. Did all 7 have charts indicating violent death?

The lunar return in effect at the time of her death also has Libra on the ASC like the solar return indicating the promise of the solar return will be fulfilled this month.

The solar and lunar returns are worth a look.

Tom