Detriments were mentioned in the thread about peregrine planets, and there are some observations I?ve made about them in my studies.

Detriment would seem to have to do with certain formality, rigidity, lack of creativity and ?by-the-book? attitude that wants to follow the rules. Mathematicians, statisticians, chemists, clerks, secretaries and public officers often have planets in detriment, also celibates do. In contrary artists and creative people ? composers, arrangers, instrumentalists, dancers, actors, playwrights and humor writers ? also people with high IQs, engineers and architects, have fewer planets in detriment than usual.

A detriment planet could be compared to someone who comes to a foreign culture and instead of adapting that culture s/he starts to keep hold of his / her own culture more rigidly than ever. Liberal Muslims (or their sons of the 2nd generation) who become radicals in a Christian country might be an example of this.

Dane Rudhyar had Sagittarius rising and Jupiter in Gemini, and Woody Allen has Virgo rising and Mercury in Sagittarius; Rudhyar is an example of extreme ('radical') Jupiter (the philosopher), and Allen is an example of extreme Mercury (the analyst).

Of course Rudhyar can hardly be accused of formalism and lack of creativity, but maybe this is a 'by-the-book' Jupiter that we're talking about. Jupiter that carries through Jovial expansiveness and philosophical attitude as a rule, no matter what. It may also be that Jupiter is in an Airy sign, so what we have is abundant Air. In a way Rudhyar wanted to follow the rules (of Jupiter) when he adapted astrology to follow his conception of Jung and the 'bigger picture' regardless of whether those concepts fitted astrological tradition or not.

Oops, I just said in the discussion about the terms that dignity is more about quantity than quality, and now I'm here in full speed discussiong about the quality of a planet in detriment...! Look who's confused.

I'm pleased to see it (I've just added a response to that thread which recommends that the notion of quality is not overlooked).

I started to get confused with this the moment I noticed in nativities that Dom. planets did not grant decency, moral behavior, respect of others and rightfull actions. Still, like everything else in astrology, it seems there is no easy path, you should consider quality as much as power in this as well.

The problem in my results may have been that I?ve studied all the seven visible planets, not using the traditional way and concentrating on the Asc ruler. I know that Clelia Romano suggested me to do that many months ago . Now I run a study using only the Asc ruler, and lo and behold, the results pointed more to the concept of ?essential dignity? as you would imagine it.

Among the top-15 of the groups (out of 130) with the Asc ruler most often in its own sign were:
- highly educated people
- people with high IQs
- child prodigies
- diplomats
- publishers & editors
- playwrights
- humanists & philosophers
- private personalities
- opera singers
- diplomats
- lottery winners
- astrologers (flattering for astrologers).

Among the top-15 of the groups having the Asc ruler most often in its detriment were:
- executed people
- rapists
- prisoners
- Nazis
- boxers & martial fighters.

This is scary indeed! Is it really so that we?re born as saints or sinners? Or alternatively, do our natural impulses guide us to a certain direction, and if those natural impulses are of a more destructive type, then we have to fight harder to maintain our dignity? In any case, it cannot quite be like humanistic astrologers are saying, that the horoscope is the map for the full manifestation of our real being!

There were positive groups too in the top-15 of the Asc ruler most often in its detriment: people with a Western religion (Moslem, Christian, Jewish ? most of the people belonging to this group in ADB seem to be devout Christians), celibates, long lived people, textbook & non-fiction writers and columnists & journalists, which leaves one to wonder what role receptions play here. That should be studied more closely. On the other hand, some people may think that having a Western religion or being a celibate is the most detrimental thing there is (I don?t belong to those)!

Yes, it seems that one cannot ignore the role of the Ascendant ruler in these studies. Traditional methods rule (and the tropical zodiac, I must admit).