UK in CRISIS!!!

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Hi all!!!
The crisis is now in all THE WORLD, BUT IM GOING TO WRITE ABOUT THE CRISIS IN THE UK, BECAUSE THERE IS GOING TO BE A CHANGE IN IT'S MONARCHY, IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME FROM NOW.
It is important to note that the events are produced by the action of the next eclipse of the day February 9, the same occurs at 21 ? Aquarius / Leo, this sector remains very sensitive because it is the position of the opposition last Saturn / Neptune (Jun 25, 2007), which also is present in the Government of Brown(Jun 27, 2007). Also be watching the Queen Elizabeth II,who also has the configuration of Saturn / Neptune, a little more loaded with Jupiter / Mars, with the progressed Moon at 21 ? Leo!.
Mario
www.siderum.com

2
Hello Mario,

I wouldn't deny that the UK is in crisis. More so than many of its european neighbours. As the financial centre of Europe London did especially well in the boom and is consequently feeling the worst effects of the bust. The prosperity was fuelled by a massive boom in house prices which has now gone into rapid collapse.

Gordon Brown has also taken the highly controversial decision to spend our way out of this recession/depression. Its all based on a very optimistic assessment of how long the downturn will last.

Anyway, getting back to astrology apart from the natal data of Gordon Brown and Queen Elitzabeth I recall you are using the 1066 chart for the whole UK + the monarchy?

What about Prince Charles?

Are you using the 12.00 noon chart for 1066 or a rectified chart?

I tend to see this as a longer term problem and use the 1801 chart which leads me to to believe things are going to deteriorate further over the next few years with Pluto approaching the UK IC & Sun. We are also seeing Pluto hit many national charts over the next few years with the emphasis on cardinal signs. I know I may sound like a merchant of doom but I feel that even if there is a partial recovery next year we have deeper economic instability ahead which probably represents something like a global great depression.

Mark

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This might sound cynical, but I wouldn't equate a change in the monarchy as equated to 'crisis'. More like a matter of interest in who winds up on the throne. Does Charles even want it? It seems doubtful. He'd rather potter about with his projects and play Wagner, is my guess.

As to the downturn, I too see this as a longer-term thing. All this started happening around the Pluto ingress, so 'rapid improvement' aren't words I associate with the economy or the state o'things, despite Brown's sunny optimism. I think this represents a forced change in values, personal, political, social, and economic.

Very interesting times we live in. Isn't that a Chinese curse? :D

GH :)

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This might sound cynical, but I wouldn't equate a change in the monarchy as equated to 'crisis'. More like a matter of interest in who winds up on the throne. Does Charles even want it? It seems doubtful. He'd rather potter about with his projects and play Wagner, is my guess.
I think you are missing the bigger picture here. This event would mark the end of an entire historical era. The second Elizabethan era would be over. Bear in mind just how long Queen Elizabeth II has been on the UK throne.

She has now reigned for almost 57 years. If Queen Elizabeth is still on the throne by 10/09/2015 she will have reigned longer than Queen Victoria and will consequently be the longest serving monarch in British history!

When Elizabeth acceded to the throne in 1952 British was recovering from WWII and still held many of its colonial possessions. Her reign has seen the de-colonialization ( and de-industrialization) process and Britain's greater integration with Europe. In addition Britain has changed from being a largely white nation to a multi-racial one during Elitzabeth's reign. I am no great monarchy enthusiast (In fact I am a republican by conviction in the tradition of William Lilly!) Still you cannot ignore the historical significance behind such a long and successful reign. I think the end of her reign would mark a highly significant see-change in British identity and how Britain is viewed abroad. The monarchy may have very little power in the modern world but their symbolic influence is immense. As astrologers we know all about the power of symbolism!

Mark

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Hello Marc

[quote="MarkC"]Hello Mario,


Anyway, getting back to astrology apart from the natal data of Gordon Brown and Queen Elitzabeth I recall you are using the 1066 chart for the whole UK + the monarchy?

What about Prince Charles?

Are you using the 12.00 noon chart for 1066 or a rectified chart?


Mark[/quote]

I use the following information:
1.- UK, Dec 25, 1066; Time:12:07:27 LMT, London (Rectified by M. Raskovsky)
2.- UK, Dec 31, 1800; Time:23:59:27 LMT, London (Rectified by A. Marr)
3.- Quenn Elizabeth II, Apr 21, 1926;Time:01:12:41 UT, London (Rectified by Polich and Page)
4.- Prince Charles, Nov 14, 1948; Time:09:13:37PM,Buckingham Palace (Rectified A. Marr)
5.- Prince Williams, Jun 26, 1982; Time:08:00:01 GMT, London (Rectified M. Raskovsky)
Regards
Mario
www.siderum.com

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Mark,

Maybe you missed my point... :lol:

I said, "I wouldn't equate a change in monarchy with a crisis." In other words, whether Elizabeth is on the throne for another 10 years, or Charles takes the throne, or Wills, it's still not a crisis. Whether it's an historical matter is a different argument... Maybe if NO-one wants the throne after Elizabeth, it would be a crisis...but only a crisis of identity, of 'Britishness', rather than anything especially tangible, whether you are a Royalist or a dyed-in-the-wool republican. THAT would make for some interesting viewing!

I was merely arguing with the semantics of the initial post. I am 'neutral' as far as Royals go; being a Yank, I don't really have jurisdiction, do I? It's my opinion that Charles doesn't want it, but will he take it anyhow? This is the question...

GH :)

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In keeping with Gunhilde's remark about it not being a crisis ? I found the thread title very annoying, upsetting and depressing. It's packed with attention-getting emotional thrills: ?UK in CRISIS!!!? Mundane astrology is rife with that sort of thing, especially now. We need to raise mundane astrology out of titillations of dread. The thread is specifically about the monarchy, but the title ? along with the opening ?The crisis is now in all THE WORLD ...? ? undoubtedly helped to quickly turn the thread toward economic matters. The thread capitalizes on the current mood, which makes it really rather tacky (sorry). I don't know about the rest of you, but the near-hysteria in the media is wearing me down. I'm trying to stay away from news and all the minor stories they can tie in to the current theme, but coming here to Skyscript and finding a nation ?in CRISIS!!!? feels like being pursued by ghouls of doom. I tell you, we're all being driven to nonstop watching of musical comedies.

About Elizabeth II: What a gal! She really hangs in there. Love the hats.

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I still dont get how any crisis in Brittain could have anything to do with the Monarchy? the Government is run by Parliament and people do their business with Mr Brown, not the Queen.

any Crisis in the Monarchy as far as I can see would be family and social, but not financial or governmental.

and I quite agree with Kirk, the title of the thread is obnoxious.

Unless its another Tsunami or Hurricane or a huge war breaks out I think the word Crisis and Exclamation points are more than a little over the top. Not to Mention if it is a Crisis, Drama doesn't help matters any.

well My 2 cents worth, others may vary.

Granny

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In my opinion, however, many practitioners of astrology, not ASTROLOGERS not know or did not realize that in Astrology and Astrology Mundana any special concerns, "everything relates to everything", so if there is a crisis in power, namely the Prime Minister or Queen, called United Kingdong (1066-1801) or Proclamation of the Windsor House, London, etc, therefore the country will be or will be affected. The Mundana Astrology has many approaches, and all must lead to the same result.
Kind Regards
Mario
www.siderum.com

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Hello All,

I really dont understand why people here are getting themselves so worked up about the title of Mario's thread.

As someone actually living in the United Kingdom I dont think the word is that objectionable. The UK newspapers and television are using it all the time. I agree there is always a danger of self fulfilling prophecy. In other words we all talk up the gloom and doom to the extent it becomes inevitable.

Ok Mario's style of prediction is a bit too melodramatic for me. Some of it reads like the headlines of a sensationalist tabloid magazine. I would rather see cool rational analysis. For example Mario's prediction of a terrorist attack on Britain last year which never materialised. I think people need to be very careful before making dramatic claims like that. I would prefer to see the detailed astrological analysis to go with such deeply worrying claims. I dont just mean the odd reference to an eclipse or transit.

I would agree that lumping in of the royal family together with the UK government and its economy is a mistake. I suggested Mario set up this new thread to separate it from the one running already on the UK Royal family. I was hoping he would confine himself here to discussion of the UK government/economy. However, he seems determined to link the two together. The reason for this is quite simple. Mario is relying on the same chart for the royal family as he is for the United Kingdom! In other words the 1066 chart. I'm afraid when Mario and Gunhilde got into the royal dimension again I couldn't resist even if the discussion is probably more appropriate elsewhere.
Maybe you missed my point...

I said, "I wouldn't equate a change in monarchy with a crisis." In other words, whether Elizabeth is on the throne for another 10 years, or Charles takes the throne, or Wills, it's still not a crisis. Whether it's an historical matter is a different argument... Maybe if NO-one wants the throne after Elizabeth, it would be a crisis...but only a crisis of identity, of 'Britishness', rather than anything especially tangible, whether you are a Royalist or a dyed-in-the-wool republican. THAT would make for some interesting viewing
While I think perception issues are very important I dont think that is all that is at issue in the succession to Queen Elizabeth. I think a change in the monarchy may instigate a possible constitutional crisis. Yes sorry folks the c word has entered the room!

A King like Charles for example would no doubt strengthen the hand of republicans. Queen Elizabeth II is almost an impossible act to follow in terms of her moderation and public quietude. I think if Charles becomes King he would find it very difficult to resist being outspoken on a numer of issues just as he has as Prince of wales. Moreover, Charles has also indicated he does not want to be the Head of the Church of England ( Defender of Faith) but the defender of Faiths. The disestablishment of the Church of England seems a distinct possibility under his reign.

I am not suggesting a crisis for the monarchy is imminent. I dont use the chart Mario is relying on so I do not share his analysis. However, once Queen Elizabeth II dies I do think there are bigger issues at stake than just Charles vs William. Still I agree with Gunhilde it is fun!

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I think if Charles becomes King he would find it very difficult to resist being outspoken on a numer of issues just as he has as Prince of wales.

Mmm, yes. I see your point. Maybe, as I mentioned, a crisis of 'Britishness' in its current incarnation, with C of E schools and the meddling of that upstart Dr. Atkinson! :lol:

Oh, interesting times.

Has anyone found any concrete 'evidence' as to which chart(s) is/are best? It seems to me that there is a lot of hair-splitting over whether 'Britain' was born in 1066 or in Cromwellian times or at the end of the Hanoverian dynasty, etc. Are there any charts that actually have been proven to *work*, as opposed to the ones that 'make sense' along historical timelines? Surely this is one of the biggest bugaboos in mundane astrology: which chart to use to represent a country/monarchy?

Obviously, mundane astrology isn't my subject; I've read with interest all the differing arguments for the various charts. They all make sense, in a way, but have any of them worked?

GH :)

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Mark, you wrote:
I really dont understand why people here are getting themselves so worked up about the title of Mario's thread.
Then you wrote a short paragraph, followed by:
Ok Mario's style of prediction is a bit too melodramatic for me. Some of it reads like the headlines of a sensationalist tabloid magazine. I would rather see cool rational analysis. For example Mario's prediction of a terrorist attack on Britain last year which never materialised. I think people need to be very careful before making dramatic claims like that. I would prefer to see the detailed astrological analysis to go with such deeply worrying claims. I dont just mean the odd reference to an eclipse or transit.
So ... do you see where we're coming from or not? Cheesy, silly, tabloid astrology or something with a little more dignity? Some of us see the difference between 'UK in CRISIS!!!' and 'UK Monarchy in Crisis'. I would like to think that serious astrologers use the latter approach.

It's not just the thread title. I wish it were simply a matter of cheesy, silly, tabloid astrology. The larger issue is mundane astrology being so easily and often used for emotional manipulation through fear. I won't be wishy-washy about this. I plan on making myself irritatingly persistent about it whenever it comes up. :twisted: