46 by Andrew Bevan So Andrew gets his revenge, without even knowing the discussion was going on. That's alright. Nice footwork, Kirk! http://www.astronor.com Quote Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:09 am
47 by Pleiades Tom wrote:I did some desktop and book shelf research on peregrine and Morin's use of the term. I'm afraid I don't own Bonatti: Deb wrote: In English we have ?peregrine? as an adjective (as it is in astrology) or ?to peregrinate? as a verb. I don?t think we have it as a noun. Yes we do: First from Webster's Unabridged Dictionary 1913 edition: Peregrination (Page: 1064) Per`e*gri*na"tion (?), n. [L. peregrinatio: cf. F. p?r?grination.] A traveling from one country to another; a wandering; sojourn in foreign countries. His peregrination abroad." Bacon. From the Online Etymology Dictionary peregrination Look up peregrination at Dictionary.com 1528, from O.Fr. peregrination (12c.), from L. peregrinationem (nom. peregrinatio) "a journey," from peregrinatus, pp. of peregrinari "to journey or travel abroad," from peregrinus "from foreign parts, foreigner," from peregre "abroad," properly "that found outside Roman territory," from per- (q.v.) + agri, loc. of ager "field, territory, land, country" (see acre). My understanding of the astrological meaning is that it is a stranger in a strange land. Think of a powerful politician in country A travelling to country B where he is unknown. He has no authority, no power, no ability to do the things he can do when he is home. This would not be the case if he were in detriment or fall where he is capable of performing great mischief. I know of no traditional authority who makes such an unqualified statement, though. Morin What follows is from Book 18 on the strength of the planets translated by Anthony LaBruzza (Tony Louis). Keep in mind, like his contemporaries and some of his predecessors, Morin writes forcefully and seems to be extreme in his views. His actual delineations are not that way. Morin does not use terms or faces and his triplicity rulers vary from those of Dorotheus and Ptolemy. Therefore, a planet is more likely to be peregrine in Morin's system than in the others that use 5 essential dignities. Words in brackets are from the translator and are inserted to help clarify. Anything in brackets followed by my initials are my own explanations: "When a planet does not occupy its Domicile, Exaltation or Triplicity, it must necessarily lie in its Detriment or Fall or a sign with which it has neither affinity nor incompatibility and where it is said to be peregrine. In the case of a planet in its Detriment, by the malignant combination of and mixture of the influxes of the zodiacal sign and the planet the influences of each is so corrupted because of their incompatibility that one can expect only a perverse effect. Thus a planet in Detriment acts according to its own nature and that of its dispositor -- but in a depraved manner, much more so if its dispositor also occupies its own Detriment or Fall, or is an enemy of the planet which it receives. ... A planet in its Fall is quite weakened in its efforts to act according to its own nature for exactly the opposite reasons it is strengthened in its Exaltation. One cannot expect a significant [beneficial] effect of the nature of an inherently benefic planet in its Fall to occur in fortunate Houses of the horoscope for obviously that planet receives support only with extreme difficulty, and from some other place as, for example, from a good aspect from its dispositor. In bad Houses, however, it [a planet in Fall] it certainly does harm. ... Therefore any planet in its Fall will act in accord with its own debilitated nature, the sign that it occupies, and the dispositor to which it is subordinated. "Finally, a planet that is only peregrine [that is, posited in an unrelated sign] is not corrupted, as it would be in its Detriment, and is not debilitated as it would be in its Fall, but becomes only somewhat weaker. This condition occurs solely because of the planet's lack of natural compatibility or affinity with the sign. Hence, common astrologers were mistaken in assigning peregrinity (sic) a total of 5 points of weakness or debility as they would a planet in detriment [Morin is referring to the point system used by Lilly and others to determine strength - tc]. Thus in the case [of peregrinity] one must attend only to whether a planet lies in the sign of a friend or an enemy, a topic treated in Book 15 Chapter 14 of this volume [Book 15 of Astrologia Gallica translated by James Holden available from AFA- tc]. A peregrine planet in the home of a friend suffers hardly any diminution of power to act according to his own nature, and most of the time, even receives some assistance, for example, Saturn in the domicile of Jupiter often indicates riches. On the other hand if the [peregrine - tc] planet occupies the home of an enemy, it becomes frustrated and malicious, as for example, Mercury in Scorpio or Mars in Gemini, which indicate a quarrelsome, fraudulent, or mendacious mentality For Morin, planets in detriment, fall, and those that are peregrine each act differently. This is also the case for all traditional authorities. Therefore it seems that a planet cannot be simultaneously two of the above. It can only be one. Saturn in Aries is in its fall. It is not also peregrine (remember no terms and faces). Using the 5 level dignity system we would have to modify that to the first 25 degrees of Aries as Saturn is in his terms in the last degrees of that sign. A Planet in detriment behaves in a particular manner. Its "behavior" is not modified depending on whether or not it is also peregrine. Without the terms and faces, and using Morin's triplicity rulers, this is less complex that it seems at first reading. Should an enterprising reader think to inquire, "What about Mars in Cancer?" I admit I don't know for certain. In Morin's system the water triplicity is Jupiter by Day, Moon by night and Mars is the participating ruler only. My guess is he would claim that Mars is in Fall and that's that. A planet has dignity, debility, or it is peregrine seems to be his rule. Tom Hi, Would you inform which planets are friends or enemies? Quote Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:37 pm
48 by johannes susato Pleiades wrote:Hi, Would you inform which planets are friends or enemies? You can find this information in: William Lilly, CA, pp. 57 to 83. Perhaps, or very probably, Morin would dissent of Lilly's opinion. Quote Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:10 pm