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Guernsey the Cat

 
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:57 am    Post subject: Guernsey the Cat Reply with quote

Hi all,

Iíve been away doing tours for the past six weeks, but something came up that I wanted to do a chart on.

My beloved cat Guernsey has a tumor and will need surgery to remove it. She 16 years old, but is otherwise in remarkable condition. She shows no signs of being sick other than some problems digesting her food. I took her in to the vet to have him treat a minor eye infection and to his surprise and mine he discovered a tumor in her belly. It probably is in the small intestine but the vet canít tell until he operates. He says it is the size of a lemon, which is hard to believe since she acts to normal. She plays, she shows no signs of pain, she's alert and affectionate.

While I was at the vets office I had some time to wait while they took some x-rays of her and that is when I thought of the question. It was 7:32 PM, eastern daylight time (-4 hours from GMT) on April 14 in Arlington, Virginia. The planetary hour is Mercury, and the ASC is Libra, so they donít match up and perhaps the chart is not radical. My significators are Venus and the Moon, while Guernseyís is Jupiter, because as a cat she is ruled by the 6th house.

I have to say that I donít know where to start with this. The first thing that I notice is that my significator, Venus is in the 8th house of loss and death, and her significator is in the 11th house, the house of hope and luck. I am stuck as to how to proceed because I am not sure if I should turn the chart to look at the catís turned first house as a sign of her health, and her turned 6th house to look for signs of how sick she is.

The aspects are: the Moon will first be trine with Saturn, then opposite to Jupiter (Guernsey), then square first to Venus and then to Mars. Maybe I have been away from horary for too long but I canít make heads or tails of this. What do all of those things (Sun, Mercury and North Node) in the 7th house mean? There are no partners or enemies here.

Any starters for how to proceed?
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Ficina
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 1807
Location: Kent, England

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark, sorry to hear about your cat - very upsetting when a pet is ill. Could you tell us what the exact question was? Thanks Smile
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question was just a very general one about her health and prognosis. The doctor can't tell if the growth will return after surgery, or if he will be able to remove the tumor safely. Someone I am very calm over the whole matter and I hope I am not bring too optimistic. Guernsey seems fine, but I kno she is not. She just does not act sick at all which is so baffling.

My main question with the chart is where do I start? Her significator, Jupiter is very debilitaed and being in Virgo indicates trouble with the bowels, which is where the tumor is located. But I really don't know if I should use turned houses since it is not me that is sick.
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Ficina
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 1807
Location: Kent, England

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again Mark,

First off I'll say that I'm no expert when it comes to medical astrology, but I'll just make a few suggestions/comments.

I guess if you are asking about another's health, then you should use turned houses. However, I was wondering whether it might be easier to treat this as a decumbiture chart, perhaps taking the time as the vet's diagnosis? The chart wouldn't look very different but it would be more straightforward to read. Just a thought.

Re the 8th house: as well as loss and death, it also shows "fear and anguish of mind" (Lilly). Although you say you feel optimistic, you must naturally be worried. Mercury dispositing Venus reinforces this, I think.

Re the 7th house: rather than partners or enemies, this house shows the physician (vet). That strong angular Sun suggests to me that you have a good man there!

Yes, Jupiter is debilitated, but Jupiter is still Jupiter and is in the house of its Joy.

Not sure what the Moon's aspects may indicate. Maybe someone else can help us out here? Do you have a date for the operation yet? We may be able to work out some timing.

Good wishes to you and Guernsey

Ficina
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 4130
Location: England

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Hi Mark,

Sorry Iíve dropped the chart in so late. Hope itís correct Ė there are three Arlingtons in Virginia.

Iíd look at the radical chart first, like Ficina says, the 7th represents the physician, so in this case the vet. The 10th signifies the treatment used to cure the illness and whether it will be effective or not. Get what you can from the radical significations, and then turn the chart specifically to relate to the cat. Jupiter is very poorly dignified and retrograde, in its own 6th house showing it to be under the influence of illness and lacking in vitality. It was most recently contacted by the square of Venus, which rules the catís turned 8th house, showing perhaps the realisation of a chronic or very serious condition. Jupiter retrogrades back to Saturn in its 4th house. I think that shows the cat is very old and nearing its end, probably not as fine as she seems, but then Iíve never heard of such an old cat so Iím sure you realise that already.

Maybe with Mercury ruling the catís 6th and retrograding into combustion, the exalted Sun signifies a very capable vet who will bring some relief. The Moon (signifying the cure) applying to the conjunction of Uranus shows a kill or cure risk. I hope itís describing a clean cut of the tumour and that your cat surprises us all.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone,

I notice that Deb used a combination of radical and turned houses and that confuses me as to which ones I should look to first. For example, why is the radical 10th house the cure and not the turned 10th house? After all I am not the one who is sick. The same for Venus. How would I know if Venus represents me or the cat's 8th house?

Overall I thought the chart looked pretty grim to me, but I couldn't put my finger on it exactly.

Time will tell. She's in surgery right now and I'll find out later today. The vet assumes this is cancer and if so, then the question really is if it has spread or not.

And cats (especially spayed females) generally live a long time. It's not uncommon for them to live into their 20's. Today the vet's assistant said that Guernsey could easily pass for a 10-year-old or younger. She comes from good stock too. Her brother Zeppo is still alive and healthy and I believe that the two others from the litter are still alive as well but I don't have them. They were still alive as of last year. The longest-lived cat ever was age 36 when it died.

Thanks again to everyone
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone,

I got some really bad news this afternoon from the vet. Guernsey has cancer, it's inoperable and it's spread. He didn't do much more than open her up, take a biopsy and close her up. She's such a lively little cat, it's hard for me to see anything wrong with her. I had always assumed that she would outlive her brother Zeppo but I guess I was wrong. Now comes the hard part after she comes home and gets sicker and sicker until I have to do what I don't want to do. And I won't be able to be home much to be with her as I have to lead all kinds of tours. I have to work while the work is here. Thanks everyone for the support. I thought that chart looked pretty bad.
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Sue



Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 945
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

I'm sorry to hear about Guernsey. It's a very difficult situation to be in. I am not surprised that you were confused by the chart. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, emotions can get in the way of objectivity. I had a similar situation last year. I had two cats, a brother and sister, who have lived with me longer than anyone else apart from my parents and siblings. One of them got quite sick one weekend. I live in a small town with no vet so the best I could do was wait until the Monday. I drew up a chart and knew immediately that he wouldn't make it. But I kept looking at the chart for something that would tell me I was wrong. This just totally confused me and I didn't know what to think. In the end he died on the Sunday night before I could get him to a vet.

My suggestion would be to keep the chart and then look at it some time down the track when you are able to be more objective. It will probably take some time before this can happen but it's an interesting exercise. I look at the chart I did now and can see the signs quite clearly.

I hope you get to spend as much time as possible with Guernsey. As hard as it is, it is also quite rewarding.

Sue
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I notice that Deb used a combination of radical and turned houses and that confuses me as to which ones I should look to first. For example, why is the radical 10th house the cure and not the turned 10th house? After all I am not the one who is sick. The same for Venus. How would I know if Venus represents me or the cat's 8th house?


Often you need to consider both and look for a consistent theme. The radical 10th needs consideration because although the chart isnít about you, it is specifically about your question. In illness charts the 10th house should describe the cure/treatment attached to the situation upon which the horary is focussed. In the same way the radical 7th house should describe the physician involved, so you can get a signification of the vet from this house and donít have to go to the turned 7th house.

Personally I prefer to place the main emphasis upon the radical chart unless there is a reason to turn the chart Ė for example, if you have two cats that have fallen ill then you need to separate the signification. A good example of this is the ďwill my parents be OK this yearĒ chart. Otherwise, the advantage of turning the chart is to get more specific information as it applies to the patient. This should be used to compliment and add detail to, not contradict, the signification of the radical chart. So for example here the 10th house ruler is the Moon in Pisces. It is applying to the conjunction of Uranus and the opposition of Jupiter (the cat), so the prospect of the treatment bringing benefit to the cat looks unlikely. If you then consider the turned 10th, (radical 3rd) you have Pluto sitting on the cusp and the house is ruled by a debilitated Jupiter, which is retrograde and applying to Saturn. So this can only reinforce the general signification of the radical 10th.

Similarly, Venus is used to signify you and it is also taken as the ruler of the 8th house, (both in the radical and turned chart). When you use Venus to symbolise you, the separating aspect between Venus and Jupiter suggests the parting between you and your cat. When you use it to symbolise the prospect of death, the fact that Jupiter has most recently been touched by Venus, and they are still in partile square, can only give cause for concern.

When I wrote my earlier post I took out a comment that I didnít think that surgery could bring any benefit because I realised that it had already been organised and I didnít think it would do any good to say it at that time. But Iím sure that even in your optimism, you realised this chart was showing that the natural end has come and thatís partly why you became so confused. When we do our own charts we can only translate the symbolism through a mind filled with the anxiety and confusion that caused us to ask the question. Most horaries really need the intervention of an independent astrologer, or else itís only later, like Sue says, that the message becomes so clear and obvious.

I suppose the only blessing here is that you have a little time to pour love and affection on Guernsey. Iím sorry, it must be very upsetting for you.
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Maybe with Mercury ruling the catís 6th and retrograding into combustion, the exalted Sun signifies a very capable vet who will bring some relief.

Well, a bit of update on this chart from over a year ago.

Guernsey the cat is still very much alive and just had her 17th birthday. The vet says she looks about 10 years old.

Yes, she does still have cancer, and yes it has spread, but she still has NO symptoms of it other than the occasional volcanic vomitting, which comes from her intestines being restricted by the tumor. She eats food and it comes out the other end, which is the very definition of health. She plays, runs around, causes trouble and in general is full of life.

Her illness is represented by Mercury as it rules the 6th from her house, the radical 6th. Mercury is retrograde and combust - a good description of cancer that is in remission. Of course it will turn direct at some point, but heck she's 17. BTW, Zeppo the cat who died this past March was her brother. He's sorely missed.
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1393

Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 5:00 am    Post subject: An example Reply with quote

I would wanna add an real example from my experience... unfortunately, I have lost this particular horary chart Confused

Last year, my friends dog got sick, the vet said Apucheto (the dog) had a few days to live. I was asked to drawn a chart, and I use 6th house as the significator of Apucheto. It was going to be combust in about 4 and a half degrees in the 4th radical house, so I predicted death in 4 days. I was wrong, he died in 4 hours.

Besides that, I thought it was strange that Jupiter, my Bfīs ruler, was attacked by hard aspects by two malefics, rulers of turned 6th and radical 8th... I though it was saying that he was very upset with the dogīs disease, but it turns out that the dog died with a necropsy of the liver (jupiter).

Y
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