Houses systems in TA

1
I have one question for all of you.

I know a lot of traditional astrologer who are using a Koch system, some of astrologers stil use Placidus.

Which system is more accurate to your experience ?

As egzample i saw that in some chart is very hard to find evidence of important of events if Placidus system is used ?

Which system do you use ?
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

2
Today in traditional astrology the reference is Regiomontanus, I think, especially in horary. As to nativities some prefer Placidus.

Lilly and his contemporaries followed Regiomontanus too. Even Morin, who had developed his own system, published in Regiomontanus' style to be better understood.

Koch is perhaps a bit 'very psychological' . . . ?

Jonny

3
House systems are like sports teams, everyone has a favorite. Traditional astrology is no more pinned to one house system than any other form of astrology. Most probably use Placidus. Horary astrologers tend to prefer Regiomontanus. I've used Regio for natal work and tried Alcabitius for natal now and then, but I usually end up back at Placidus.

Tom

4
I disagree with susato. Regiomontanus is reference only in horary astrology, and even so there were other House systems that were used by different authors. If memory doesn?t fail me, Lilly used alchabitius before he found out Regiomontanus.

I think if we see this questions as historical, the most used system probably was alchabitius, as it was favored by the arabs and early medieval authors. Porphirius maybe, because of its simplicity.

I don?t know exactly what you call "traditional astrologers" (there are so many definitions out there) but Koch is really not a good example of traditional astrology, as he was born in 1895 ! Of course traditional astrologers can use newer house divisions, but they usually don?t use it, because, well, they follow a tradition.
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com

5
Hi yuzuru,

do you - or anybody else - know, which of the great authors began to use the placidian style - or is this modern practice?

I read, the contemporaries of Placidus refused his method but I can't give a quotation. Did they really?

Jonny

6
Hi, I don?t know when exactly his system started being used. I remember reading that it just got his head start after the publication of a set of tables, as most astrologers couldn?t use the trigonometry necessary by hand in their practice.

But I am sure it is not "modern" in the sense of 20th century. Renaissance or late medieval is more likely.

Maybe when Deb returns from her vacation she will give us more information... after all, she wrote the book :D

A curiosity that I also have heard is that Placidus original method is an approximation of Magini houses, but as computers have today enough calculation capability, they don?t use the placidus approximation anymore, they calculate the exact position of the houses defined by Magini.
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com

7
johannes susato wrote: do you - or anybody else - know, which of the great authors began to use the placidian style - or is this modern practice?

I read, the contemporaries of Placidus refused his method but I can't give a quotation. Did they really?
Well, obviously some did (as other house systems have survived) and some didn't (as the Placidus system has survived). :) The system itself is older than both Placidus and Magini; it was known to Abraham ibn Ezra in the 12th century. Similarly, the 'modus rationalis' of Regiomontanus was known long before his time and may have originated with al-Jayy?n? in the 11th century. A good place to look for this sort of information is J.D. North's Horoscopes and History (1986).

8
Martin Gansten wrote: The system itself is older than both Placidus and Magini; it was known to Abraham ibn Ezra in the 12th century.
Well, in fact Placidus claimed it was the system mentioned in Ptolemy's Almagest.
If this was exactly the case I don't know, anyway whatever he does Placidus always says the same :)

Margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

9
Gjiada wrote: Well, in fact Placidus claimed it was the system mentioned in Ptolemy's Almagest.
Margherita
Ptolemy described method of (as nowadays we call it) semi-arcs as the method of primary directions. But he didn't used it for houses, and it hasn't hapenned for a better part of millenium until arabs used it for it. The only difference to so called Alchabitius house system is, that in Alchabitius is only one semi-arc used for calculating all cusps, and in Placidus there are four of them to calculate 8 intermediate cusps.

The method of semi-arc seems to be developed personally by Ptolemy, or to be quite a new discovery at the time, since century earlier roman poet Manilius who wrote astronomically excellent treatise "Astronomica" makes no mention of them. Although Manilius in length discusses the great circle east point-zenith (nowadayas we would simple say Campanus), he clearly states that it is the method used for navigation but has no astrological application.
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http://people.tribe.net/bogdan

10
BogdanKr wrote:Ptolemy described method of (as nowadays we call it) semi-arcs as the method of primary directions. But he didn't used it for houses, [...]
Absolutely correct. Placidus claimed to follow 'Ptolemy and Reason', and the amount of Placidus's own reason (steeped in scholastic philosophy) in his system is at least equal to the amount of actual Ptolemaic teachings.
The method of semi-arc seems to be developed personally by Ptolemy, or to be quite a new discovery at the time, since century earlier roman poet Manilius who wrote astronomically excellent treatise "Astronomica" makes no mention of them.
I think there is a case to be made for Balbillus probably having directed by proportional semi-arcs, about a century before Ptolemy. But I will save the details for my book, and perhaps a separate article. :)

11
Lee Lehman said that a little while after the Protestant Reformation got underway, the Protestants tended to go with Regiomontanus, and the Catholics with Placidus - it's in Classical Astrology for Modern Living. And does kind of make sense, but that's the only reference I've found regarding house system preferences.

12
Olivia wrote:Lee Lehman said that a little while after the Protestant Reformation got underway, the Protestants tended to go with Regiomontanus, and the Catholics with Placidus - it's in Classical Astrology for Modern Living. And does kind of make sense, but that's the only reference I've found regarding house system preferences.
I don't think that is correct. Morin, who was fiercely Catholic, was an out-and-out Regiomontanus man. Partridge, who was ferociously anti-Catholic, followed Placidus (generally without mentioning his name). And Placidus's Physiomathematica made the Catholic Index of forbidden books in 1687, which must have hampered the spread of his system in the Catholic world.