Arabic Parts and Case studies

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This is inviting our members to a thread where we can discuss the Arabian Parts and to explore whether they can be made useful in deciding the outfall of a football match. We need to gather some ideas, observations and chart examples. I don't think we want to clutter our charts with dozens of parts, but let's look around and see if we can find something of interest. The maths may at times get complicated so it is important that we specify how the Part is calculated and we might need to discuss variations. Maybe the Part of Death when applied to a football match shows a player receiving the Red Card and being sent off the pitch!!? But how do we calculate the Part of Death? :???:

Part of Fortune and Part of Spirit

To start with the basics: The Part of Fortune (POF) is calculated by Asc.+Moon-Sun, while the Part of Spirit (POS) is calculated by Asc.+Sun-Moon. There has been a discussion whether the calculations of these Parts should be reversed in nocturnal charts according to Al Birumi. I will get back to this shortly. In our discussions of the recent year we seem to agree that the Part of Fortune (POF) is significant in determining the fortitude of the favourite. More specifically the aspects of the Lord of the first (L1) to POF seem to advance the home team and the aspects of the Lord of the seventh (L7) appear to benefit the guests. The malefic aspects to POF may corrupt the favourite and advance the underdog.

The counter part of the Part of Fortune (POF) is the Part of Spirit (POS). To put it short, while POF may show success, advancement and fortune, POS may show virtue, affection and matters of honour in a non-materialistic way. Before I started working with the Sports Forum group I was a devoted follower of changing the calculation of POF and POS in nocturnal charts according to Al Birumi. The group seemed to agree that this was not necessary - as it in fact did complicated calculations. It could in fact be that the Part of Spirit is predominant in the nocturnal and changed chart, but this is the same as saying that it is not necessary to change the calculation to reach that point that discribes the potential of victory from the part of the favourite by odds.

I include a chart for the game between Tottenham and Wigan on Jan 2. Please notice that the calculation of POF has not been reversed in this chart. The counterpart, POS, is located at 16GE31.
Image
As mentioned in the Football predictions thread for January, the Part of Controversy (Asc+Jupiter-Mars) is 21VI01 in this chart and conjunct Saturn, L7, at 21VI46. This might prove interesting since Venus, L10, is Void of Course in the 7th house. In retrospect we might discover that there is some controversial decision involving (and probaby in favour of) Wigan, who are the visiting team.

Part of Sickness and Part of Accidents

I have been flicking through Parts that could offer an interesting starting point for this discussion. I note that the Part of Sickness is quoted as Asc.+Mars-Saturn is at 9SG51 and the Part of Accidents is Asc.+Saturn-Mars and at 13TA35. I am quoting these parts in particular, because it is obvious they are counterparts in comparison with POF and POS. According to various authorities the calculation of these Parts may be changed/reversed according to day or night. Omitting any reversal of calculation and meaning for a the nocturnal chart, at present, we can see that the Part of Accident at 13TA35 is conjunct the Midheaven of the Spurs-Wigan chart. This could be an additional arguement for an unexpected turn of events that could be of detriment to Spurs, and a controversial situation that could be to the benefit of Wigan.
Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hi, Andrew
as you well know, but other members may get confused, is not Al Biruni who claimed that fortuna and spirit should be reversed. This is an helenistic concept, in which all helenistic astrologers, as far as we know agree. The arabic astrologer, most of them anyway, also reverted the formulas according to sect.

The only astrologer who didn?t revert fortuna was Ptolomy. But ptolomy didn?t follow almost any of the helenistic principles, and he didn?t even mention Spirit. Almost every astrologer who defends non-reversal fortuna (like Lilly) has two characteristics:
1- they are following ptolomy
2- they don?t use spirit.

As I do use spirit I strongly reccomment to member to use the reversed formula.

But if members are still confused, and like to use an empirical approach, I would strong advise that they don?t use the formulas which has reversion, and try to apply first the arabic parts which are fixed. That way you can have a more sensible approach, with only one variable. If you know that your methos is working with the fixed formulas, then you can try the reversible formulas with more confidence.

Y
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com

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...as you well know, but other members may get confused, is not Al Biruni who claimed that fortuna and spirit should be reversed. This is an helenistic concept, in which all helenistic astrologers, as far as we know agree.
I do not have the luxury of a library of helenistic astrologers. :( Al Biruni is quotable in regard of Arabic Parts, in the same way that Ptolemy and Lilly are tangible and available sources of information in many settings. It might be appropriate to quote Robert Hurzt Granite's 'The Fortunes of Astrology' or Robert Zoller's 'The Lost Key to Prediction', just so students know where they can get hold of information. I will try to be more clever in quoting pages.

I think it is interesting that the Part of Fortune (Asc.+Moon-Sun) describes the 'Outer World' and the Part of Spirit (Asc.+Sun-Moon) an 'Inner World'. In the same way that the Part of Accidents (Asc.+Saturn-Mars) describes an Outer Cause and the Part of Illness (Asc.+Mars-Saturn) an Inner.

I feel that the purpose of this thread is mainly to gather some observations and put some of the Arabic Parts into practical use so that we may discuss their effect and meaning.

Yuzuru, please feel welcome to contribute with some charts on sports events, football in particular, where you make use of the Part of Spirit - just make sure that you quote the location of the Part, the formula and whether it is a nocturnal chart with reversed/changed and nocturnal formula.

I don't mind if we make up our own Skyscript Parts as long as they make sense and can be shown to have a practical effect. I think that the idea is to get a Hands-On understanding of the Parts in a way that may advance our ability to understand and predict sports events and probably our astrological skill and adeptness in other fields, too.

The Arabic Parts are by nature a combination of houses, ie. mainly using the radical ascendant as the starting point in reference to the mundane, together with an angular relationship between two planets that induce a combined meaning or effect. The Parts move like planets but in relation to a terrestial background, i.e. in fixed reference to the ascendant, and not in reference to a celestial background, as do the planets. In example, the Part of Fortune (or any other Part where the angular relationship between the combined planets is more slower plodding than the swift angular relationship between the Sun and Moon) may by coincidence allign with the Midheaven during a day, but the allignment between the planets and the Parts are more notable since the planets move more swiftly across the apparent sky and occur more by accident.

There may be controversy and discussion on matters of tradition, but let's not let that get in the way of doing some good work! :)
Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yuzuru wrote:
The only astrologer who didn?t revert fortuna was Ptolomy.
Hi Yuzuru,
You are obviously talking about Hellenistic astrologers, but there is an interesting reference in a chart dated to 81 AD which is published and translated in Neugebauer and Van Hoesen?s Greek Horoscopes, (the relevant comment is on p.24). The ascendant is given as 18 Scorpio, the Moon?s position is 13 Taurus, and the Sun is 14 Aries: hence the chart is nocturnal. Using a reversed (nocturnal) formula would place Fortuna in Libra, but if we followed the method described by Ptolemy of adding both by day or night, then Fortuna would be in Sagittarius. At the end of this judgement the astrologer says that Fortuna is in Sagittarius, but mentions that some ?ignorant? astrologers would place it in Libra. In light of this I find it interesting that Ptolemy doesn?t just fail to mention reversing the formula at night, but seems to specifically speak against it in stating that the calculation is added ?both by day and night?.

I?m not saying this is the way to go, of course, but I am curious about why an astrologer who preceded Ptolemy should appear to be so outspoken on this.

Andrew wrote:
I don't mind if we make up our own Skyscript Parts as long as they make sense and can be shown to have a practical effect.
Hi Andrew,
That comment seems badly phrased - surely you are not suggesting that we advocate the use of ?making things up? here on the Skyscript forum? I wonder if what you mean to say is that maybe there is some arc or combination of planetary connections that has been shown to have an experimental effect and we are open to exploration? I think it was Nick Campion who made up a formula for the Part of Pizza ? which of course it got taken seriously by many astrologers, (to our collective embarrassment).

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Deb wrote:Andrew wrote:
Quote:
I don't mind if we make up our own Skyscript Parts as long as they make sense and can be shown to have a practical effect.

Hi Andrew,
That comment seems badly phrased - surely you are not suggesting that we advocate the use of ?making things up? here on the Skyscript forum?
My appologies if I gave the impression of wanting to make things up. However, I hope there is place for research at Skyscript and the exchanging of ideas. Like Yuzuru I reverse the calculation of POF and POS in nocturnal charts, but then when I discovered that members of the Sports section were content with not reversing the formula - and although my opinion was that POF won football matches by Day and POS by Night - there was a point were I thought of proposing of changing the name of both parts to the Part of Winning (for the purpose of sports prediction) but that may only have added to the confusion. :???:

Personally, I am a hammer and nails kind of guy and am more for simplifying matters and putting them to good practical use, rather than get lost in the philosophy of things. By seeing how things work in practice I get a new perspective on the merit of the philosophical. One of my reservations to the invaluable work of Project Hindsight was that even though much of this work was extremely interesting, I could just not work out how to put it to practical use. When I spoke to Rob Hand about this problem at the Sophie Centre postgraduate conference in Bath in July, I am sure I understood him correctly when he said he agreed and that this was the next stage of the project.

I am not actually proposing that we compose the Part of Red Cards, certainly not at present, but I think it would be interesting if there can be made some connection between the occurance of Red Cards in football matches and say the Part of Death. Olivia Barclay does on pg 156 of her 'Horary Astrology Rediscovered' refer to two different methods of calculating the Part of Death - both which she seems are significant. 1) Count from the Moon to the 8th cusp and extend from Saturn 2) Asc.+8th cusp-Moon. Then on pg 27 of Granite's 'Fortunes of Astrology' he refers to the Part of Death as Asc.+Mars-Moon. Do any of these parts relate to the delivery of Red Cards in football matches? It seems to be a more appropriate test of the theory than requiring someone to simply drop dead so that we may gather our evidence. I do propose gathering evidence from new angles.

If someone proposes and demonstrates a Part of Penalties and the formula is Asc.+Saturn-Mercury, Asc.+Mercury-Saturn or anything else, I will not object. I do not object to increasing my understanding on how the arabic parts are built up and how the formula works, but I do expect there to be a formula within the boundaries of reasonable technique and that these observations may be put to test in similar situations.

I do not object discussing the terms of how the arabic parts can be integrated into sport predictions. I think that the main requirement is that ideas and observations are presented in an orderly manner, but I will try to keep an open mind.
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Hi, Andrew, my post had just the two objectives that I stated: to avoid possible confusion and to offer advise. Nothing more than that :)

Why don?t you start with the part of Dismissal ? I would look for charts where there is a odds-on favourite as "champion" whon did loose shamefully and try to see if the part was really doing something (probably by partile aspect).

She doesn?t reverse if I remember well, which is another bonus :P
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com

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Hi Andrew,
I am not actually proposing that we compose the Part of Red Cards
Oh, go on, compose one! :twisted:

I've been looking through Al Biruni's list in Deb's article http://www.skyscript.co.uk/alparts.html and here are a few thoughts and suggestions.

Part of Triumph(POT) (Asc+Jupiter-POF). Sounds possibly more appealing than Part of Victory (Asc+Jupiter-POS). Unfortunately I have only found one example so far. Moon conj POT - the fave won.

Part of Successful Outcome (Asc+Jupiter-Sun). This is listed in Solar Fire as the Part of Increase. No examples so far, but I think this formula might be preferable to the Part of Success (Asc+Saturn-Sun) since Jupiter seems more appropriate than Saturn. Also Solar Fire lists this as the Part of Fatality. Not so surprising that I haven't found it to be of much use in the past!

The Part of Downfall has the same formula as the Part of Sickness. While I was searching for examples of the other stuff, I found quite a few examples of conjunctions and oppositions to this Part. The oppositions seemed to work consistently well, e.g. L7 opp Part of Downfall - away team won.

One thing to be wary of is that these Parts do not perform as expected when conjunct angles. Much better when they are conjunct or opposite significators.

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Ficina wrote:One thing to be wary of is that these Parts do not perform as expected when conjunct angles. Much better when they are conjunct or opposite significators.
Thank you, Ficina, you put it so perfectly. I tried to explain it, but probably got it too complicated. The Parts are more like 'house cusps' in the sky but share in motion of the planets, which more correctly is the change of the angular relationships between two planets.
Yuzuru wrote:Why don?t you start with the part of Dismissal ?
I will add it to the list. The main criteria is describing the Part by name, a formula, maybe a reference so that we can look it up and then a discription of how you intend it to use it. I'll start with the Part of Sickness, Part of Accidents, Part of Controversy and maybe we can see whether we can make any sense out of the Part of Death.

Now I can't possibly do everything myself. One way of solving the problem is that anyone has observations on a particular game, please quote the match details here with a description of what happened and then I can provide a chart and we can see how it works out. :) :'
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Tottenham-Wigan, the chart as above:

Part of Fortune (Asc.+Sun-Moon) 6SC37
Part of Spirit (Asc.+Moon-Sun) 16GE31 antiscia opp Sun, L1
Part of Controversy (Asc+Jupiter-Mars) 21VI01 conj. Saturn, L7
Part of Illness (Asc.+Mars-Saturn) 9SG51
Part of Accidents (Asc+Saturn-Mars) 13TA35 (close MC)
Part of Death 1) (8th+Saturn-Moon) 16VI08
Part of Death 2) (Asc+8th-Moon) 20LE56
Part of Death 3) (Asc.+Mars-Moon) 8GE51

Now the most striking connection I can see is Saturn, L7, conjunct the Part of Controversy. If one of the significators were conjunct the Part of Death I would look to see if someone got sent off. 8)
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The game between Sainte Genevi?ve and Lille starting in Paris 15 minutes earlier at 20.45 CET has Asc 24LE36 and your Part of Red Cards at 26LE45, John. I have to comment because here the home team had a player sent off with a Red Card after 34 minutes of play before Lille took advantage of the situation and scored in the 44th minute.

Oh dear! :sg

In this game POF is 4SC31 and more accurately sextile Mars, L4, so it looks more like victory to Lille.
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