16 by granny_skot Jupiter and Venus do not seem to me to be very Saracen, I do wonder at his description, but then I think it is difficult to use one planet to describe a religion. I could see using Saturn to describe more strict religions, Orthodox type religions, and Jupiter to describe more philosophical ones, but even then, it seems to me that using one planet to describe a religion is a bit over simplified... but as a woman I think I rather object to any of those paternalistic religions being represented by venus or moon. Gut reaction I suppose. But definitely it seems wrong to me. Granny Quote Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:49 pm
17 by margherita granny_skot wrote:J Gut reaction I suppose. But definitely it seems wrong to me. Hello, still this list was very influential for many centuries. And innovative because a list like that signified that there is no one and only true religion, but every cycle of history had one. It is a very modern way of thinking for that age. Venus is traditionally associated with Islam - Albiruni says the same. If right or wrong I don't know, we are talking about Albiruni, Albumasar, Bacon. Have a nice day Margherita Traditional astrology at http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com Quote Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:34 am
18 by margherita yuzuru wrote: Do you know if any of these authors ever listed the religions of extreme orient ? I don't know if in other works they mention different religions. The list I mentioned is very famous, everybody liked it. It mentions just these religions because there are just 7 planets, and each of them is a different phase of history. It looks like the theory of recurring cycles in Giovanbattista Vico, but Vico was writing in 1700, Albumasar in 800 AD. p.s. happy to read you in English Margherita Traditional astrology at http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com Quote Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:43 am
19 by Andrew Bevan Both Palestina and Israel are ruled by Aries. I think there is potential of a new order in the Middle East coinciding with the entry of Jupter and Uranus into Aries and their conjunction in the first degree of this sign in June 2010. http://www.astronor.com Quote Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:37 pm
20 by yuzuru The sacred day of the week of the jews is saturday (day of saturn). And the sacred day in most of the muslin countries, is friday (venus day). the cristian day of prayship is obviously sunday, so it doesn?t fit completely, but it is interesting to notice :-) Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com Quote Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:10 pm
21 by margherita yuzuru wrote: the cristian day of prayship is obviously sunday, so it doesn?t fit completely, but it is interesting to notice :-) Mercury signifies Christian religion because it is the religion of books, scholars and philosophers, at least in the Christian version of this list. For Albumasar, because it is the religion of doubt, obviously. Margherita Traditional astrology at http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com Quote Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:40 pm
22 by granny_skot Rofl, considering the lack there of in the middle ages (intellectual, reading etc.. of christians in general, not specific) I find that connection even more dubious! mercury to christianity that is... boy someone was feeling pretty sure of himself when he wrote that (read arrogant for that) I think people like over simplifying things and to me this feels like oversimplifying in a bad way. Of course that doesn't mean it doesn't work for you or that you might have a different opinion, I just think it feels completely wrong for me. I would probably see this far more in the guise of country and elctional or horary sense than in saying one planet represents this religion and another that. For instance you draw up a chart for the beginning of a conflict and the 1st house represents the country the conflict is IN, the 7th the attacker. the 9th the religion of the country the conflict is in(if it has only one or if one is known to be a root cause), the 3rd the religion (if the country has one) to the country attacking. this makes far more sense to me than in arbitrarily assigning a planet. I was expressing opinion not quoting anyone or whatever. so dont feel bad. if it works for you, use it. express it etc. In my world view Saturn expresses all three of those religions. and if needed I'd apply mercury to judaism and early Islam, not as much today (study and enlightenment in Islamic countries seems like it is not a large priority these days, ie Pakistan, Iran, etc.. of course that is a lopsided view, but as far as my information goes, illiteracy is at an all time high in some of these places leaving the young helpless to unscroupulous clerics) and the bad side of Jupiter (the narrow minded Judge) to current christian and mid east and Israel (not necessarily all jews, muslim and christian, mostly the middle east players, like the sudanese government killing the fur people etc...the Israeli gaza slaughter, the general insanity of the mideast in general ) etc... because they are all too damn narrow minded to see any thing but they're own narrow view, hence many people dead. Again my opinion. I'm not impressed with any of them at the moment that is certain. Granny PS if I use idioms or acronyms that dont make sense to you, let me know I'll clear them up, for instance Rofl is rolling on floor laughing, internet idiom used in most enlish speaking groups. English was my ex's 3rd language I never mind answering such questions, and I appreciate the return assistance for other languages when I ask. G. Quote Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:47 pm
23 by granny_skot Andrew! that explains so much about the continued conflict in that arena! I hope you are correct and that it is a less stuborn country in the end. personally I'd like to see forced desegregation, but that is because I think the more people know about each other the less frightened they are of each other. Of course religious dont like to see desegregation because people start to see holes in orthodoxy. Saps some of their power... etc. my world view others may vary. Now if a new country is formed in 2010, in June, What Birthday would you like to see for it? I mean we have a little bit of time to find a decent electional birthday for this new country now. I say we work up a chart for them. Granny Quote Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:57 pm
24 by granny_skot Regarding andrew's thought on new country forming, I was looking at the ephemeris and in July when Saturn moves into Libra both Uranus and Jupiter go retrograde. that could be indicative of the difficulties of any new country forming, or possibly could be indicitive of the irritation of others at the forming of a new country? I think that one thing that strikes me as interesting is that some people put a heavy emphasis on the Aries point. it would certainly be represented in Spades here! If you go for a solstice start date for your new country, you get a Cardinal Grand Cross, (well Saturn not quite at Libra, but darn close!) And a lovely Kite between Sun, Moon, Pluto and Neptune. a fairly nice Trine between Pluto and mars as well, a separating trine between Venus and the Conjoined Jupiter Uranus, though you do end up with a Scorpio Moon, not my favorite. worth a look Quote Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:36 pm
25 by margherita granny_skot wrote: If I use idioms or acronyms that dont make sense to you, let me know Very kind of you, English makes me crazy Rofl, considering the lack there of in the middle ages (intellectual, reading etc.. of christians in general, not specific) I find that connection even more dubious! mercury to christianity that is... boy someone was feeling pretty sure of himself when he wrote that (read arrogant for that) Well, the lack of printed books does not mean the lack of education. It's difficult to think about Middle Ages as an age without cultural and philosophical debate. the 9th the religion of the country the conflict is in(if it has only one or if one is known to be a root cause), the 3rd the religion (if the country has one) to the country attacking. this makes far more sense to me than in arbitrarily assigning a planet. Yes, we can use house rulers too, but Venus for Muslims is such a standard that it's difficult to renounce to it. Anyway I'm not sure people make war because of their religion. When people have a decent life and a proper work and a house why they spend their time killing around for Allah, Yahve, or God? I believe this is a conflict about Land - Thomas in his comment to my blog underlined it.- And in fact which is the most important factor in the event chart, Moon ruler of the 4th house (and general significator of Land) at synod with the Sun at MC. It's the first thing we can see in the chart. because they are all too damn narrow minded to see any thing but they're own narrow view, hence many people dead. I completely agree with you. Margherita Traditional astrology at http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com Quote Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:43 am
26 by cor scorpii For instance you draw up a chart for the beginning of a conflict and the 1st house represents the country the conflict is IN, the 7th the attacker. the 9th the religion of the country the conflict is in(if it has only one or if one is known to be a root cause), the 3rd the religion (if the country has one) to the country attacking. this makes far more sense to me than in arbitrarily assigning a planet. I think, based upon the teachings of Bonatti and Sahl ibn Bishr, that the first house of any conflict chart always represents the attacker, the 7th consequently the attacked. In his own words:"The ascendant signifies the party beginning the war and his cause and the thing which excited the war and whether it began with truth or falsehood.The first house signifies the party beginning the war because the first thing which comes into a war is the beginner. But for the enemy, take the seventh house and make that the first of the enemy and make the eighth his second..."etc. Quote Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:50 am
27 by margherita cor scorpii wrote: I think, based upon the teachings of Bonatti and Sahl ibn Bishr, that the first house of any conflict chart always represents the attacker, the 7th consequently the attacked. Merci, I took it for granted, Margherita Traditional astrology at http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com Quote Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:52 pm