Lily and country significators

1
I've been doing a little testing of Lily's country and town signifactors, not only looking at planetary placement but at the Arabic parts of identity and ancestral heritage. My purpose is to see the validity or lack of, for mundane use. They seem to be working pretty well so far. In my chart, for example, I can see the Irish, Scotch and Dutch connection quite quickly through these two Arabic parts.

I'm having a little trouble with some of his names though. One is the Archipelago. Does anyone know where he is refering to? I've googled and come up empty since it can mean any group of islands. Has anyone else tested his assignments?

Thanks
Connie

2
Is it Lilly's country and town significators that seem to be working or is it the Arabic parts of identity and ancestral heritage? I am not sure how your are applying this in a mundane chart, my guess is that you are working with nativities, but a chart example together with the formulas for the Arabian parts would be interesting for anyone who may want to contribute with an opinion.

Are the Arabic parts found in Lilly's work, too, or do you have a different source for these? As for the Archipelego, could you tell us which sign is involved? It would be useful if you could quote where it is mentioned in Lilly's work.

Feel free to tell us more about your findings. Anything new? What are you looking at? In what way do you differenciate between a town and a country, ie. Gemini could represent either London or the United States of America? That can be pretty puzzling sometimes.

I hope that wasn't too many questions. The astrology of countries, cities and location is definately a topic of interest for the mundane section. Good luck with your investigations and I hope someone can come up with an explanation to your query.
http://www.astronor.com

3
One is the Archipelago. Does anyone know where he is refering to?
I just looked it up in the Oxford Shorter. Definition #1 looks good: ?the Archipelago, the Aegean Sea. arch. E16.? [archaic, early 16th century]

Definition #2 reads: ?A sea or other stretch of water like the Aegean in having many islands; a group of islands.?

The general term comes from the reference to the Aegean.

4
Thank you Kirk. I was able to find that much but didn't know if in Lily's time the Agean is what he was referring to. Do you think this is the case?

Hi Andrew. The
Arabic parts were in a nativity, as you say. I was testing country of origin through Lily's country lists and it seems to show validity. My purpose or goal, though is for use in mundane work and especially with events concerning missing persons. I was just using ancestry to see if they fit because that is a know. I would so love to work out significators for the US states too, since that is where I am. But that may be overly optimistic and too time consuming. If I could at least confirm Lily's significators it would help a lot. Borders have changed a lot, and names so I first have to determine where all of them are.

Thank you both.
Connie

5
I was able to find that much but didn't know if in Lily's time the Agean is what he was referring to. Do you think this is the case?

According to definition #1 above, referring to the Aegean as ?the Archipelago? is first found in written form in the early 16th century (1500-1529). The dictionary doesn't state when the term became archaic, but since Christian Astrology dates from 1647 there's a good chance it carried the same meaning for Lilly. However, I haven't found it yet in CA.

Both H. S. Green and Raphael (the 6th or 7th Raphael?) state ?Grecian Archipelago? for Taurus in their respective mundane astrology books from the early 20th century.

6
Thank you Kirk. I think you are right. I was rather surprised to see islands connected to Taurus though. I would have expected to see Virgo involved, since her sign is the same as that for minum, islands being small. But, that likely isn't the quality that he is referring to by assigning the Archipelago to Taurus. I was wondering if it may have an Italian connection but see that the word came from Greek, originally. Wiki says it refers to any islands that are formed tectonically.

I'm sorry Andrew. I was in a hurry and didn't completely answer you. I had copied and pasted the country info into a separate document so I had to go back to the source to find it. It came from Christian Astrology, Vol 1, Chapter XVI. The Nature, Description, and Diseases signified
by the twelve signs.

"Countries ruled by ?.--Ireland, Persia, Great Poland, Asia Minor, the Archipelago, and the southern parts of Russia.--Towns: Dublin, Mantua, Leipsic, Parma, Franconia, Lorraine: also the islands of Cyprus and Samos, and the port and vicinity of Navarino."


Kind Regards,
Connie

7
AquE wrote:I would so love to work out significators for the US states too, since that is where I am.
I have been working on a list of Norwegian towns, but such a list could be subject to discussion. The question is how the signs were alotted to various nations according to the ptolemaic model in the first place.
AquE wrote:Borders have changed a lot, and names so I first have to determine where all of them are.
That is an interesting point. Boarders do change, but is the association with sign based upon regional location or the identity of a nation. I would have thought the latter, but it could be a mix.

Rex E Bills has Oslo, the Capital of Norway, as ruled by Cancer - but so is Stockholm, the Capital of Sweden. :shock: In example, I have registered Trondheim in Norway under Leo/Pisces (jupiter) because it served as the Captial of Norway for a period, the King lived there and it is the seat of the Norwegian Church, reknown for its Cathedral. Bergen, on the West coast, would come under the influence of Aries/Capricorn, being surrounded by 7 mountains and they have a football team called 'Brann', meaning 'fire'. However, Bergen gets more rain than any other place in Norway. The people there get absolutely saturated and they talk funny, too, which might accredited the half-muted signs. Troms?, in the North, I have under Leo or Libra (Pisces). Troms? is the 'Capital of the North' and a bridge to remote regions. The city is also divided by a fjord and joined together by a brigde. Troms? has a terrific network of roads built into a mountain, which includes several roundabouts, parking facilities and direct access to shops.
http://www.astronor.com

8
Good morning, Andrew. Yes, it would be helpful to understand how the ancients assigned. Lily gives Norway to Scorpio. What is it about your home that he is describing?

He gives North America to Gemini, nothing for the United states because it was just beginning to be settled at that time. Gemini would fit Canada and the United States, 2 countries making up a whole continent. But neither was an organized entity at that time. Canada didn't have its first permanent settlement until 1603 according to wiki. So the judgment must have been based on the indigenous people on the continent. In looking at the various tribes there is a distinct different in the facial features between the Northern and Southern groups. So perhaps this is where the duality came from. The Eskimos remind me of the Chinese or Mongoloid. Most of the other tribes remind me more of the Middle Eastern features. I see he has Norther Egypt listed for Gemini too but nothing in Asia. Oh, wait, I know another possibility too. The two mountain ranges form two lines, like either the two uprights or the top and bottom connecting lines.

Connie