does it really exist?

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An unaspected Sun in my opinion does not exist. Generally, in that same opinion, an unaspected planet does not exist. Of course that needs a little explanation.
If you look at the contacts with other planets then it might be possible that the Sun (and other planets) makes no contacts, so unaspected. But of course it depends on how you define your aspects.

I, for example, work with the following aspects:
0, 30, 45, 60, 90, 135, 150, 180 and // using conservative small orbs, meaning 4-5 degrees for the major aspects and 1-2 for the minor ones and finally 1 degree for the parallel aspect.

If you cannot find any contacts in this way for any planet, that planet is unaspected in the sense of contacts with other planet.

It would work then on its own force, not hindered by any other planets and the field of operation would show maximized in the house where it is. Some astrologers call this status "feral", for instance Jean-Baptiste Morin does.
The way this planet shows in the outer world depends on the house it is in. If it is in a cardinal house, it can show its working more outerly then when it is in a cadent house. But this planet always needs an aspect to show its workings in the outer world, by means of progressions, be it secundary or primary (or maybe transits...) Only then it can play a part in the outer world for that person. Without it, it would work mostly in thoughts, ideas, habits, but it does not produce anything tangible.

But now the surprise.... a planet is never unaspected....

If the Sun was in Aries (without any contacts with other planets) it IS aspected, because it is in the domain of Mars, so Mars is influencing the Sun - it is received by Mars. Moreover the Sun would be exalted there which would strengthen the contact with Mars.
If the Sun was in Capricorn, it would be received by Saturn and then the Sun is connected with Saturn and so on, so any planet is never alone otherwise it could never function at all.

Regards, John

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But now the surprise.... a planet is never unaspected....

If the Sun was in Aries (without any contacts with other planets) it IS aspected, because it is in the domain of Mars, so Mars is influencing the Sun - it is received by Mars.
No. Reception is not the same as aspects. The word 'aspect' is related to vision ? think 'spectacles'. Planets in aspect see each other.

Semi-sextiles and quincunxes don't count as true aspects. They aren't relationships of vision ? that's at the heart and foundation of astrology. If the Sun is in Aries Mars does indeed receive it. But if Mars is in Pisces, Taurus, Virgo or Scorpio there is no aspect ? Mars can't 'see' the Sun. Reception and aspects are two different matters. But it's not important. We're in the 'General Astrology' forum. We can say, believe, and do anything pleasantly acceptable here. :wink: However, it does get ugly over at the traditional forum.

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I must agree with Kirk, dignities can not be a substitute for a lack of aspect, those are two different things. We consider both aspects AND dignities as well as the position in a specific house to get the whole picture. It's never the same if you find a well dignified planet with lots of stressful aspects and a planet in its detriment with good aspects etc. We get the picture only after taking every one of these things into consideration.

I also agree with this
Semi-sextiles and quincunxes don't count as true aspects.
After all- these aspects are telling that planets can not form any major aspect because they, actually can't see each other so, again- no help in situations where there are no other aspects to a planet.

I don't think I've seen many charts with unaspected planets but I have seen some and it has always been very intriguing for me (together with intercepted houses). This is how I see it- if a planet makes no major aspects, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. A chart with an unaspected Sun is still a chart with Sun in it. AS Kirk has said- aspects tell us that a planet can see other planets- it can communicate with them- fight, chit-chat, love it, hate it..but they basically exchange something, work together and influence each other (which, in real life, can sometimes be manifested through obstacles, disappointment, non productivity, or positive things; depending of the aspect and the rest of the chart of course.) So, if a planet is unaspected- it is basically on its own. It is still there but not as a part of the team. It's a solo player but it's still in the game.
Now, the progressions and transits, solar returns etc. will eventually activate that planet and what ever it is representing in a chart and bring it into a connection with other planets but - if something is not promised in Natal chart of an individual we can't expect it to happen. That planet is "left alone" ie - it's up the that person to rely on itself to fill in the gap caused by this lack of aspects - that is where progressions and other additional charts can help a lot. People often seek for an Astrlogers help when they're "about to divorce" but, unless they've got some strong signs of a divorce in their Natal charts- they will never go through with it. Even if they have a promise for more than one marriage. But the fact is- the progressional or Solar return charts sometimes bring aspects destructive for marriage. People even split up. But they eventually get back together- because there was no Natal promise. Yet, they did feel the influence of a transiting or progressed planet. I believe it could be a good way to use a unaspected planet: the Native must put a lot of effort to "energize" that aspect of life with no external help in general yet, could take advantage of every situation promised by transits and progressions. If two people can split up thanks to a progression though they're never to be divorced, so could a Native use a temporary help to get the wind in his back. That's at least how I see it.
Of course, depending of the position of such planet and the house it rules, we complete the picture but I'm not keen to believe it's an absolute obstacle. We usually use at least a few approaches to determine something so, we always have to look for anything else that might have its own impact to that sphere of life- if a planet is unaspected in the 2nd: where is the ruler of the 2ndd. If it is the ruler of the 2nd: are there any planets inside it etc.

Finally - a planet that can not see other planets is basically a stubborn planet. It does express itself but is inclining to exageration (because the lack of aspects doesn't allow it to spread or transfer its own energy on another sphere of life) ) and selforientation (because it accepts no influences). Here are some examples- I've seen two charts of hyperactive children with unaspected Mars. One of them had a wely dignified Mars- his parents were going nuts when he was just 2. A well dignified unaspected Mars was even more restless and the fact it "wouldn't comunicate" with anyone made the situation even more desperate. So that Mars does act, it even exagerates but no help is accepted by that kid. Nothing seems to reach him. Unaspected Sun may bring a major ego issue though, I guess whether the unaspected Sun or Moon is in a chart of a woman or a man can makes a great difference. I have a friend who's only aspect to her Moon is a separating Opposition to her Sun (1st/7th axes, with Moon in the 7th)- that only aspect is of no great help. She is obsessed by the idea of finding a "worm relationship" and can often oversee she has actually found one. The Moon in the 7th pushes her into a new relationship immediately after she breaks up with someone, she desperately wants to feel secure but is unable to feel so even when she actually is secure. It's the urge to find that security that is important - searching for it, not finding it! And then comes Sun/Moon opposition just to spice it up a bit.
Last edited by aglaya on Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:54 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Hi all,

I must admit that I made some wrong sentences here and there. Where I wrote:
But now the surprise.... a planet is never unaspected....
If the Sun was in Aries (without any contacts with other planets) it IS aspected, because it is in the domain of Mars.....
I really meant: "A planet is never UNCONNECTED" which is something different than UNASPECTED, so Aglaya and Kirk are right in this point.

Where we will always have differences of opinion lies in the definition of aspects. The traditional Ptolemeic aspects don't recognize 30, 45, 135 and 150 degress as a real aspect, that's true... but tis thread is not in the part of Traditional Astrology, just Astrology... so we MAY count them as aspects.
As I also wrote somewhere else here inthe forum, many famous astrologers used the minor aspects, like Morin, Vehlow and many many other astrologers. So.. it is no shame to use them, it's a matter of usage of astrology.

And just THAT definition would make a day or night difference for a planet to be aspected or unaspected.

John

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If it's any help: my ex-sister-in-law has an unaspected 12th house Sun in Leo. She is very, very odd. She had an abusive childhood and finds it very difficult to maintain relationships...she is effective and efficient at work (her 10th house Taurus moon, perhaps), but a narcissist when it comes to other people. A narcissist, and manipulator extraordinaire. She's nasty when crossed. That may have to do with other aspects in her chart, but I found her Sun, all alone and dimmed in that cadent house, to be very peculiar and telling, indeed.

GH
:)

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@ GH

That is exactly why I mentioned that ego issue when it comes to an unaspected Sun, unfortunatelly I've got no charts at hand but I did have a few discussions with Astrologers who have seen a few and they all said the same thing- each one of these people have had a manipulative, authoritative even despotic character. One of the charts mentioned in our discussions belonged to a person who used to be a head of a big firm- people were constantly leaving the firm and suing him for discrimination. his Sun was on the cusp of the 10th. That ego grows but it grows inside itself sort of speaking. I like what you have said because such planets are basically "not to be crossed" (though, "not to be crossed" is quite descriptive for most sisters-in-law for that matter! :D )


@ JohnLi

I do understand your point of view, yes such planets can "behave" in this way or the other, depending of their placement in the chart, the house(s) they rule and dignities but the fact is, they exchange nothing with other planets. Now, as for the minor aspects, I did learn to be flexible when it comes to them- one of the things I had been thought was to not pay a lot of attention to patterns such as T-squares or grand trines yet I did manage to find some logic in them and make a parallel with the life of the native and I now do think they can not only tell a big part of the story but can also help in giving suggestions to a Native. Along that, I started paying attention to YOD formations as well and they include these minor aspects but, unless connected in the same circle (the one created by the pattern that keeps them together all the time) Semi-sextiles and quincunxes often, at least from my perspective, really do tell that communication between planets is hard- they can't see each other. I've got a few quincuxes in my chart I think that's exactly how they work- they require an effort and time to be overcome. So I'm somehow more inclined to believe that when two planets are separated from each other by 30 degrees- they're having trouble establishing a mutual communication. Though, I'm always open to a possibility such position can push themto try to connect which, again, thanks to a good suggestion from an Astrologer may be helpful but I'm not sure I've got enough experience and informations so far to prove me right.
Though, I've seen quite a few charts of people with only one aspect to one of the planets and it's a somewhat similar situation- they do communicate but their focus is always the same. If unaspected planet does not have one, a planet with only one aspect focuses on one sphere exclusivelly. Many charts of "non-flexible" leaders have got either very stressful aspects or a very few of them. I believe there are only 6 major aspect in the chart of Adolf Hitler.

But I find it very interesting to see how an unaspected planet can manifest itself when it is actually stimulated. It's not only the symbolics of the planet we have to take into consideration but also its placement and the house it rules. Just recently a friend of mine had told me she had found an unaspected Mercury on the cusp of the 3rd house in the chart of her friends 13 years old son. Apparently, he is a very restless kid and obsessed with cars and his mother was starting to be affraid he might start stealing his fathers car (Mercury and 3rd house, a doubled "transportation and cars" symbolics) so she was thinking of how she might focus his fascination with cars. Though it could also be a writing matter, we both thought it was a bit to late to introduce him to pencils and notebooks :) so I suggested she might use Mercury for "fine work, precision" and the symbolics of the 3rd house for cars and ask someone to let him "repair cars". It turned out his uncle was a car mechanic and very fond of that kid and he was more than willing to help. He'd intentinaly make a "damage" on one of the cars in a garage and let him repair it or guess what might be wrong. He doesn't want to leave that garage any more. :) So, maybe, one day, he'll be a great mechanic- focusing on what he likes and taking advantage of it. It would be one good way to use that Mercury.

Unaspected sun

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I have unaspected sun in my natal chart. There is no major aspect to other planets. The sun is in 3th house in Aries. What is your opinion about that? Sometimes I am a selfish person but my Capr. ascendant play the most important role in my life.
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The Sun also rules 8th house where is my stelium! According to 3th house things like communication - its not my strenght. How acts the Sun here? Is this position strong or not?

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An unaspected Sun in my opinion does not exist. Generally, in that same opinion, an unaspected planet does not exist. Of course that needs a little explanation.
If you look at the contacts with other planets then it might be possible that the Sun (and other planets) makes no contacts, so unaspected. But of course it depends on how you define your aspects.
I might disagree with this kind of insight though I'm not that well-learned about astrological perspective about sun and other celestial bodies because there is yet no definite conclusion about their peculiarities.