Greetings, I asked the author Dave Mastry to join this forum and post this. He apparently has gotten a bad taste in his mouth from the last experience he had with web forums.
But he has given me his blessing and said he would help me if any questions arise I feel incapable of handling.
I should also state I've known Dave over 20 years and that we are in fact distant cousins. We both got into astrology around the same time in the early 1980s and that Dave introduced me to sabian Symbol analysis some 20 years ago.
He would also like me to point out the incomplete septile matrix on this chart that begins at the Asc./Pluto/Moon conjunction and to state it corresponds with the reading the American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce gave for the correct birth time...[I don't have the reading number but I'll ask Dave for it later]...and that it seems to satisfy Rudhyars theories on this birth.

I forgot to mention that the perponderance of the 'proof' is in the Sabian analysis of the Arabic Parts, [example: the Part of Fortune is the 19th degree of Pisces, "A Master Instructs His Disciple"]. so be sure to especially llok to the Parts of Catastrophe, Benifits and Sudden Advancement...et al.
Please keep an open mind here as I know Sabian Symbol analysis doesn't have a great deal of support but Dave and I have both been utilizing it for over 20 years and we are both convinced of its validity.
You all may also wish to consult the reknowned Sabian astrologer, Lynda Hill with questions regarding Sabian analysis.

There seem to be few people on this particular site who adhere to a belief in Sabian Symbols; I do believe you will find a good deal of scepticism about their validity.

I am more curious as to the selection of the birthdate...is there some corroborating evidence that it was the 2nd of April as opposed to, say, the 6th, which is a date I have heard bandied about?

Leaving Sabian symbolism aside, what sorts of aspects are you expecting to find in the chart of a realised master; and how would these charts stand up against the charts of other masters, and how would you prove it?

Shalom,
GH

The more profound aspects include the Pluto & Asc & Moon conj and the Sun & Uranus conjunction.
The date as given by Cayce was March 19th by the Julian Calendar [which converts to April 2nd Gregorian] and Cayce also said the birth occured in what [then, at the time of the reading] was considered the 3rd year of Jesus' life. Thus the year 3 A.D.
Also the fact that Pluto is in the 1st degree of Libra. The Symbol for the "Perfect Form of Man".
And to add just one more ref, to the Symbols, if I may. Both Dave and I were taught to look to each house cusp for the symbolic role one plays ifn the affairs of that house. The 12th house is supposedly 'Ones answers to the problems of the world", and the symbol for this 12th house cusp is about "Brotherhood"
There are a great many very significant aspects regarding metaphysical proclivities in this chart.
Also it should be noted that utilizing this birthdate leads one to a chart for the crucifixtion that satisfies all know data and accounts of such.
I'm not a biblical scolar. I was raised [somewhat] Roman Catholic [Dave and I share a common Italian ancestor through our grandmothers].
I understand there is a Biblical/Historical astrologer whom has been working with Dave on this for some weeks now and all data checks out to date. In fact there a a few noted astrologers working with Dave on this and all are giving positive feedback at this time.
Also Dave put a great many posts on this subject at the Astrodienst web forum that I believe are still archived and more can be read at that site in His own hand.

It might also be of interest to some of you that Dave feels that the 'Star of Bethlehem' was in the 1st degree of Libra and somehow Pluto was involved in this "Star".
He explained to me that the Magi figured out there had to be an "Event Window' and that the Moon in the 30th degree of Virgo plays a part in this that amounts to a [I believe...but I'll check with Dave later on this to be sure] 2 hour span on that eve of March 19th Julian. This also kind of explains why Cayce said there were more than one set of Magi on the search, as this event window was somewhere over 2000 miles long and quite a few hundred miles wide. The Magi apparently only knew that the birth had to have taken place somewhere in this swath.

I asked Dave if it would be okay to post His birth chart for you all to look at and he has given me permission. He says it's posted at Astrodienst as well anyways.
I don't know if it's appropriate within the rules of this forum. If it isn't I'm sure the moderators will pull it. I mean no disrespect here.
I feel that Daves chart is significant in that it is one of the most "mystical" charts I've ever had a chance to see. And knowing Dave pretty well I must say he is quite involved in "mystical" pursuits and experiences.
So, here it is. [Note: I'm sorry I can't seem to get it to post, so here is Daves birth data: May 6, 1953. 7:41 pm pdst, Glendale, Los Angeles County, California]

quitefunky, These are some very interesting links, thankyou.
I am fascinated by etymology and most especially philology.
As the great Hindu saint and scholar, Shankara, said: "He whom tracks language to its lair will indeed become omniscient."

The Pythagorean Monad that is illustrated at one of the above links is exactly as the Chinese Ideogram for the concept of 'Awareness'...[as I recall...the word awareness may not be completely accurate, but then what transliteration of any language to English is completely accurate?]

Again, thank you for this info. skippy.

I find the Sabian symbols for the Planets/Orbs to be so 'right on' too.
Someone mentioned "So what?" when I pointed out the symbolism for the Arabic Parts as that person felt that just about any Sabian Symbol could be interpreted to 'fit an explanation' of that particular Part. I say, that is 'Bunk'. Most especially with the more familiar and utilized Parts. I urge all that are interested to determine the other Parts/Lots for yourselves and see exactly what I'm talking about. The Part of Sudden Advancement and the Part of Catastrophe are SOOOO exactly right on I feel. You couldn't pick a better Sabian Symbol to fit the concept of those Parts as per what is known about Jesus' life. [Note that the Author and I both feel only the Day Formula should be utilized for the Part of Fortune regardless of the time of day of birth.]
As to the Orbs, I feel Venus is most poignant. Venus is in the 7th degree of Pisces in this chart.
Pisces 7* [From Rudhyars book "An Astrological Mandalla"] "ILLUMINED BY A SHAFT OF LIGHT, A LARGE CROSS LIES ON ROCKS SURROUNDED BY SEA MIST.
KEYNOTE: The spiritual blessing which strengthens individuals who, happen what may, stand uncompromisingly for their own truth.
Men who do not depend upon collective values, traditions or support but seek at any cost to be true to their individual self and destiny almost inevitably face some kind of crucifixtion. They are sustained only by the power within them, to which a light above answers. The symbol tells us 'Be true to thine ownself, and in the midst of the outer confusioon displayed by those surrounding you, you will realize what you really are as an individual-a son of God.' ...This symbol...implies the supreme worth of a life guided by an inner voice and manifesting a high degree of SELF-ASSERTION."

I'd like to also point to what I feel is a very significant Planetary Sabian in this proposed birth chart. It's the one for Neptune, the 25th degree of Scopio.
I like utilizing the Astrologers Handbook by Sarkoian and Acker as it gives the various paranormal and metaphysical attributes that supposesedly occur with various aspects.
Pluto conjunct the ascendant is about the most praised in this book followed by Sun conjunct Uranus. This chart has both.
Pluto conj. the Asc. is supposed to confer a sort of like "X-Ray vision" into the workings of the universe around oneself. The Sun conj. Uranus aspect supposedly confers an understanding of this very same ability.
When Pluto is within 1/2 degree of a perfect conjunction these abilities seem to become 'Casimi'...which I know is a term applied to Mercury conj. Sun but also seems appropraite for this conj. It's as if this special ability it grants is amplified exponentially when within a half degree of perfect conjunction.
I know of a couple of people with this aspect. One of the has the conjunction near perfect and she does posess an ability as it is described in the aforementioned book. I also know people with a Sun/Uranus conj. that seem to have this 'gift' of understanding the 'cosmic coincidences' or at the least seem to have an explanation for, or insight into, 'the things that go bump in the night'.
The Symbol for Neptune in this chart at the 25th degree of Scorpio is described:
[From Rudhyars "An Astrological Mandalla"] Scopio 25*. "AN X-RAY PHOTOGRAPH. KEYNOTE: The capacity to acquire a knowledge of the structrual factors in all existence. The true philosopher is able to grasp and significantly evaluate what underlies all manifestations of life. His mind's eye penetrates through the superficialities of existence and percieves the framework that gives an, at least, relatively permanent 'form' to all organized systems. Thus if the structure is weak, deformed by persistent strain, or unbalanced, the basic causes of outer disturbences and dis-ease can be discovered. This symbol...gives an added dimension to the preceding four. For instance, it provides the conscience of the individual who refuses to obey his society with a depth-understanding of what is wrong in the situation he faces. Beyond the powerful feeling quality of 'peak experiences', the mind can understand the great Principles of which they were the manifestations. This is STRUCTURAL KNOWLEDGE in contrast to existential knowledge."
...This symbol for Neptune [The 'Higer Vision] when combined with the legendary abilities attributed to the aforementioned conjunctions gives me a vision of a man most adept at performing the 'miracles' attributed to him.
These same 'miracles' are attributed to, or called, 'Siddhas' by the Yogis.
The best book I know on the subject of siddhas is "How To Know God. The Yoga Aphorisms of Pantanjali.' an ancient tome translated by Isherwood, . I have a couple of friends that became disciples of the great Swami of Siddha Yoga, Swami Sri Muhktananda They will attest to these legendary proclivities and abilities as they saw demonstrations of them by Swami Muhktananda. I myself had Darshan with the Swami twice some years ago, before his passing and was witness to some occurences that can otherwise not be explained. I have also had my own experiences with other Swamis/Gurus whom I was, and still am a disciple of. [of course I never saw anyone 'raised from the dead'...but even this power/siddha is mentioned by Pantanjali as is the ability to walk on water and materialize in places other than where one is physically present among many other siddhas/powers.]
This is not to slight Jesus in anyway, but the Yogis of India have preformed all the very same miracles over the centuries at various times and mention of this is in many accounts and writings found in India. Rudhyar also talks about these abilities in his book on the Sabians in the chapter "Binary Relationships Between The Signs" a most 'esoteric' dissertation about grouping the 12 signs into 6 different forms of Yogic understanding.
Where Rudhyar obtained this understanding of Yogic science is still a mystery to myself and the author but does add to the impression that although Marc Edmond Jones and Elsie Wheeler were the source of these symbols, Rudhyar, with his background of studies in Jungian symbology combined with his other areas of study and knowledge gave HIM the edge in interpretation.
I would like to emphasize once again that every Sabian Symbol for the Chart Axis, House cusps, the Orbs and the Arabian Parts seems to be the most 'perfect' of any choice one could make given the complete selection of the 360 symbols to choose from. I urge all of you that are either already convinced of the validity of the Sabians and those that are still skeptical but receptive to the idea to check the rest of this charts Sabian Symbology out for yourselves.

Greetings again. It's been pointed out to me that a great many of you may be unfamiliar with Rudhyars' explanation of the Chart Axis through Sabian Symbol analysis as He explains in his book "An Astrological Mandalla" in Part Three, the chapter titled "The Cross and the Star."
In that chapter Rudhyars explains that the Axis is to be considered symbolically as the Asc. being representative of WHO, the Desc. as WHERE-TO, the Nadir as HOW and the M.C, as to WHY of ones existence and purpose or mission here on Earth. Rudhyar may have re-discovered this or my have come across an account of it somewhere. I don't know.
He also states that it may take MANY years to see the connections symbolically as it is somewhat of a long term observational process to 'see' the symbology in 'ones life' through this method. Rudhyar urges all not to get discouraged and to always refer to the Sabian Symbology in all chart analysis to expedite this understanding...in the hope that an epiphany will occur one day. The author states in his book how he finally achieved this epiphany for himself just prior to discovery of this chart.
Rudhyar also proposed the first degrees of Libra, Aries, Cancer and Capricorn would be found in the natal chart axis of Jesus. In the order he discussed them in his book it seems that Rudhyar may have been anticipating these symbols to be reversed i.e. with the Asc. being the 1st degree of Aries. It is all the MORE profound, in my opinion, as to the 1st degree of Libra being the Asc.
This implies Jesus [WHO] was born as the 'Perfect Form of Man'...the Sabian Symbol for the 1st degree of Libra and Jesus [WHERE-TO] was meant to become a newly evolved form of life via the symbol for Aries 1*.
I think this is a good time to bring up another Sabian Sumbol found in this chart. It's the symbol for the Arabic Part of Catastrophe.
For this chart that Part comes to the 28th degree of Virgo. The Sabian Symbol for which is described thusly by Rudhyar.
VIRGO 28* "A BALDHEAD MAN WHO HAS SEIZED POWER.
KEYNOTE: The sheer power of personality in times that call for decision.
Whether at the religious or at the socio-political and cultural level there comes a time when obsolescent patterns of order and cultural refinement have to be radically and relentlessly challenged. Catabolic personages emerge to seize power and dictate decisions that alter the structures of society; or within an individual life, an intense urge for cathartic changes mobilizes the will, and traumatic decisons are made. At such times, the issue has to be met and, ruthless as the power may appear, it must be accepted.
At tis third stage of the thirty-sixth sequence we face the unpostponable necessity for decision and transformation. Existence is motion. No static formation, however beautiful and inspiring, can remain long unchallenged. Everything bows to THE POWER OF THE WILL--divine, executively human, or Satanic."
When this symbol for this Part of Catastrophe is viewed and understood as the attitude or action one doesn't want to employ in his or hers' life it becomes profoundly significant in understanding what caused the ultimate catastrophe in the life of Jesus. That is; challenging the 'Religious...socio-political status-quo. And that is exactly what almost all Biblical scholars will agree to as being the cause of the Crucifixtion.
I very much recommend [if not emplore] you all whom take these Symbols seriously to determine your own Part of Catastrophe and learn what to avoid.
This does add a great deal of light to why it was considered, in olden times, a bad idea to divulge ones natal chart information. That is, to let a foe know ones weak points could lead to your un-doing.

It's been pointed out to me that a great many of you may be unfamiliar with Rudhyars' explanation of the Chart Axis through Sabian Symbol analysis as He explains in his book "An Astrological Mandalla" in Part Three, the chapter titled "The Cross and the Star."

By who? The orignal author choses not to comment in forum discussions, and yet this thread continues to be quite preachy; or at least to me there seems to be a sense of fundamentalism going on here. I don't think you should take a lack of response as implying a lack of understanding that calls for even more demonstration. It may be that the general membership of the forum are simply not interested. Or it may be that, sometimes, the less said the better.

I have finally for the first time visited this thread and decided I just couldn't pass it by. From the initial post:

Greetings, I asked the author Dave Mastry to join this forum and post this. He apparently has gotten a bad taste in his mouth from the last experience he had with web forums.
But he has given me his blessing and said he would help me if any questions arise I feel incapable of handling.

Gosh, Dave, I know it's tough and rather unpleasant, but maybe you should give it another go.



From the [now next to] latest post:

This does add a great deal of light to why it was considered, in olden times, a bad idea to divulge ones natal chart information. That is, to let a foe know ones weak points could lead to your un-doing.

Well, I tell you, for most of us it's simply a matter of opening our mouths (or writing) and they know exactly where to aim. It's the human condition. It's also no secret. Jump in, Dave, and get your hands dirty.


A new unassigned Sabian Symbol in need of zodiacal placement: A man jumps into a fetid pool and becomes soiled as merry maidens shout their joy and exchange newly-found seashells. SAD LAUGHTER ON A DIRTY BEACH.

Hey, I found meaning in it. Tragically pretty, really.

You know, these symbol things are kind of fun.






I just might be wicked after all....


............


..........