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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Will John McCain be elected as the next President?
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:45 am    Post subject: Will John McCain be elected as the next President? Reply with quote

"Will John McCain become President of the USA from this election?"

I finally asked the question before the Democratic primary came to a close and should have asked it before the Republican primary was over. The reason being for my fellow horary artist's benefit is the more contenders the greater the predictive capacity as it is not just a 50/50, heads or tails prediction as there are several opponents to judge upon giving our science greater credibility.

Time: 12:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Savings Time

Date: 6 / 3 / 2008

Place: Reno, Nevada USA 119W49 39N32

The ascendent is 5 Virgo 02 with Mercury Rectrograde in the 10th in Gemini and conjuncting the Sun which since it is less than 8 1/2 degrees Mercury is Combust the Sun; so the astrologer is not in a good way in the 1st and 10th house endeavors.

The Moon is definitely Not VOC as it is applying to a cjt of the Sun by 11 minutes known as a Cazimi(less than 17 minutes within the orb to the Sun;and also as a Lunation(historicly as a fateful or dreaded aspect documented by Vivian Robson); In other words good for McCain yet bad for the public(Moon):

http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/cazimi.html

The lights, the Moon in Gemini, and the Sun are in the 10th representing the ruler of a nation as the President is as is Mercury the ruler of questions; so this question is very much concerning the President.
*If* we used the 7th for McCain. with Jupiter Rectograde and a Pisces 7th, we have an 11th house of Cancer as the 11H is the 5th of the 7th; As already stated the Moon is Cazim and cjt the Sun; a 'Yes John McCain will win the election for President; According to Louis, we look at the 4th of the matter(election) to see the final outcome for McCain which is the horary's 2H with Libra on the cusp and Venus sextiling Mars by 1 degree 41 minutes applying.

Since we know McCain's name we could look at the 7th representing McCain as one method. However since McCain is an Arizona State Senator presently we could look at him as the 11th for deligate /represenative/congressmen/senator. I do question since McCain is not a Nevada Senator whether I may be not making a valid judgment upon this; yet McCain is a Senator of the United States so it should hold weight.

*If* we use the 11H to represent John McCain as a US Senator we look at the Moon ruling Cancer on the 11th; again Moon Cazimi Sun(11 minutes applying) we see him in a positive position; As the 3H in this horary is the 5th of the horary's 11H now representing Senator McCain's election we find Sco on the cusp with the Moon sexiling Mars by 25 minutes; a 'Yes answer' that McCain will be the next elected President. The 4th of the matter here is the horary's 6H or Aqu with Saturn having no aspects unless there is some provision to allow the Moon to change signs to sextile Saturn as the end of the event.

Something typically not accepted although I saw it in the prior Bush election I predicted, looking at the horary's 11H as McCain, and observing the 10th of the horary's 11th(horary's 8th with Aries on the cusp) Mars being sextiled by the Moon again says McCain will become the President of the USA.

I'm desparatingly wanting someone to show me that I have made errors in this horary analysis as McCain is not my choice but that's the way I understand this horary! I severely question if the Rectrograde significators will nullify my verdict.

Clinton Soule :x
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


[/img]

Hi Clinton:

I posted it for you. You may want to read this. Many here don't think these charts work.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3799


Cheers,

RC
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granny_skot



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1635
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, currently President is Republican and so McCain is seen as Son of ruler, Ruler is represented by a set upon Mercury. Fifth from 10th is 2nd which is ALSO mercury still being trounced upon. So while Jupiter in his Turned 2nd house (Opposite 10, not 1. he is opposed to the ruling house) is not in the best condition, he is also Not set upon by a lot of angry people, Sun(large institutions, hospitals, angry vets), Moon(angry mothers,andgry statesmen or congress, etc.11th house) , Venus (angry women in general, and with 3rd house I wonder if not angry oil for some odd reason?) ...

Also you might consider that as Deb said asking a horary about an election rarely works, not because the Chart isnt Radical, but because the Question isn't radical. For instance if McCain asked you, you might get a straight response, but for the populace to ask... may or maynot be radical. I can see her point. Frankly with the economy in this state I would think it quite difficult for a republican to win, but who knows anything can Happen.

G
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi

Quote:
lso you might consider that as Deb said asking a horary about an election rarely works, not because the Chart isnt Radical, but because the Question isn't radical.


I want to back that up. Elections are a mundane matter, and are ruled by mundane charts. An horary chart can do the trick if the person has very urgent, pressing matters about it. Like great hate, great love, great fear. The normal curiosity will seldon have enough power.

Quote:
I'm desparatingly wanting someone to show me that I have made errors in this horary analysis as McCain is not my choice but that's the way I understand this horary! I


If he is not your choice, than he is 7th house. Either because you donīt like him (the enemy) or because you are neutral to him (every other person).

No, the fact that he is a US senator donīt give him 11th house, or other. The important thing is the relationship between you and him, than can be only a matter of 1st house ("we") or 7th house (they). He is also a husband, an ex-military, father, and none of this matters to the question.

Quote:
currently President is Republican and so McCain is seen as Son of ruler


If Bush was running again, he would be the 10th (the king).McCain would not get the 10th, even being from the same party. McCain is not either the "son of the ruler". Thatīs too metaphorical, and horary is generally more literal than methaphorical.
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:


If he is not your choice, than he is 7th house. Either because you donīt like him (the enemy) or because you are neutral to him (every other person).


Thank you for confirming that. I had some disagree with me on that point in my own, "Will BO win" question when I used the 7th.

RC
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 7th is the one you are against, or trying to hunt/catch. I'm not sure that it is the one that you are neutral to - but who asks about someone else when the relationship is neutral, anyway? I can't think of a situation where this would happen, because a dispassionate relationship would mean the querent wouldn't bother to ask the question, surely? In practice, the querent is either set against or concerned about the one that is being asked about.

If the querent identifies with, or is concerned about the other person, then unless there is a clearly identified relationship to one of the other houses (brother, friend, pet, etc); it's usual to use the ascendant to signify the person being asked about. Lilly explains this in the first section of his horary volume. The 7th house is the hunted or fugitive but not, say, the missing person we are concerned about.

This is purely academic of course, because I am very wary of these kinds of political horary charts.
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
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Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The 7th is the one you are against, or trying to hunt/catch. I'm not sure that it is the one that you are neutral to - but who asks about someone else when the relationship is neutral, anyway? .....In practice, the querent is either set against or concerned about the one that is being asked about. Deb


Then as I'm definitely not a suporter of McCain he is the Open Enemy or canidate I don't want to win.

I do see how that since McCain is not my state Senator, and it has no bearing upon the election, that the 7th is McCain for me: as I have hard resentments against his party.

As I said I did this horary before the Democratic Primary and now I find out the Republicans also had thier respective elections in the primarys to give high credibility having more than one canidate to choose from. But upon getting the positive answer on McCain, I think only other factors like his ruler being essentially in fall and the Contra-Scions, Anti-Scions, Terms and Faces may have answers which may contradict the Moon Cazimi the Sun that historically has been said to be such a positive outcome by the Ancients!

RC, thanks for your input of the Horary Chart and you got clarification on these points also; great help to everyone!

Clinton Soule
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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Location: Srbija

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton, according to this chart he will not become president (I think).
McCain\s ruler is Ju rx in fall in succedent house. To become president is 10th house matter, for him, radical 4 house and ruler again Ju rx in fall. This is not expected picture for someone whom become president, I expected some stronger planet and definately not rx.
Moon here show the events and we see that Moon's last aspect is conjunct with Me, again rx. Me is ruler of McCain's 7 house, oponent, and his 8 house. Interesting Moon conjunct Su, ruler of McCain's 6 house, both 6 and 8 are in connection with illness.
Me signifies young(er) man (Obama), Me is in angular house and because POF is right on ASC (Obama) to me it seams he will win but after repeat election (both rulers are rx).
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
McCain's ruler is Ju rx in fall in succedent house. To become president is 10th house matter, for him, radical 4 house and ruler again Ju rx in fall. Goca


I saw that Fall and Rectrograde, but notice the opposite house for his oppnent is also rectrograde. And I'm not sure drifting in looking at opposite houses of his oponent is an accepted Traditional technique!

But the main focus is that the lord of McCain's tenth(horary's 4th) has no aspects: no aspects mean 'no action'.

But using the method showed me by Traditionalist mentors, it is the 5th of McCain I must consult for the election. And it has a positive answer as it is cazimi: very positive.

Trouble is in this Merc Rectro horary, shouldn't the 5th of McCain as the election and his tenth agree?

Or is the Electoral College going to upset the popular vote?

Having Merc Rectro when the question was asked complicates this some, in that I should have asked about election only, excluding the word President as it designates position not nessasarily election. May have made a difference, but your argument on houses and fall is worthy: not sure about rectrograde significator.

Clinton Soule
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, letīs see. As Deb have said, it is hard to see an horary answering a mundane question. But I am trying to judge as neutral as I can be.

Goca, I think that an election is a very shouting 10th house event. We canīt use the turned 10th, as it is a "universal event".

So, 10th house is mercury. As mercury is also obama, acc to Frawley we take next sign, and moon as ruler of the victory.

Moon is so both the people and the victory. So, anyone who gets the moon get the prize.

IF the moon were combust the victory would be of McCain, without doubt... combustion means "under the power of the King". Here, the moon is cazimi, so she is in the boson of the king, but I donīt think she is subjected to him. At least that is my interpretation to fit horary to reality... Bush has very low levels of approval, and Mccain is trying to distance himself from Bush. In the actual context, Bush is the king, not McCain.

So, I interpret the new moon as "new cycle". That would be another sign that republicans will loose the white house.

The contraantiscia of Jupiter is in 8 Gemini. Moon has already passed that and then will join combust mercury (obama), translating the light of the Sun (presidency) in the process.

So, Obama wins.
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
yuzuru:
So, Obama wins.


As eratic as this election has been, don't count on 'Obama wins' being the last word. The chart I posted in the "Will Obama win?" thread has his ruler Mars opposing rx Saturn in Leo. That usually means separation.
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yuzuru



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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I should have made it clear, before...

I am just enjoying the exercise. I donīt think these two horaries in the forum, or the dozens of others I have seen in the last months, have radicality.

I was just doing the exercise to compare this chart and the other. This chart is clearly "obama friendly". The other I think is more pro-obama, but is the kind of chart where one could easily be mistaken.
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kali wrote:
Quote:
yuzuru:
So, Obama wins.


As eratic as this election has been, don't count on 'Obama wins' being the last word. The chart I posted in the "Will Obama win?" thread has his ruler Mars opposing rx Saturn in Leo. That usually means separation.


Giving more thought to what I said, there is 8 degrees between the two planets and being in fixed signs, your talking years down the road, no?
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:
Sorry, I should have made it clear, before...


I understood you and was having a little fun back.

Question, if 1 1/2 years after asking a question the chart shows events happening in the here and now, would that show it to be radical? For example, houses 9th USA, 10th Presidency ruler Saturn rx in Leo in 4th. Jupiter in Sag in 8th trines Saturn. To me that describes the bailout for the bad housing market.

What I readily admit is I don't know how to read the chart and predict accurately. For that reason alone I shouldn't venture into casting them. And will probably never cast another one. Very Happy But, my question is nagging me now that this event has occured.
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reading Lilly's CA on the tenth for rulers section, I have to agree since the 10th of McCain is unaspected and in fall it looks like a loss for him.

As we all know Saturn cjt. the asc. with a Merc Rectro hampers the astrologer severely.

What throws me on the horary is that Cazimi Moon cjt Sun, and the Moon rules the election house: his fifth.

When I did the Bush election in 2004, both the 10th(libra) and the Presidents 5th(Taurus) were ruled by Venus being sextiled by the Moon, making it so evident that the tenth and 5th agreed.

It's like when Lilly did horarys on thievery he looked at both the 7th and 2nd: two houses for answers generally!

Clinton Soule
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