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raphnix



Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Astrology and Astronomy Reply with quote

Why did the scientists try to separate the two knowledge. Does this mean that the beliefs of star connections are merely fictions?
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mattG



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Greenwich UK

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Scientists Reply with quote

During the so-called Age of Enlightenment astrology went out of style for a while as science as a tool for measuring came into the ascendent.The view of the universe also changed.
In the 20thC and now some scientists now believe that they can replace religion with a new creed of "Scientism". They think that technical progress can lead to human progress, a laughable conceit given the state of the world during this time. Futhermore they believe that man can attain knowledge of everything. This is blasphemy. Only God is all-knowing

Matthew
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raphnix



Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for this new information. It will add up to my new understanding to this field. By the way, Does this mean you're all have strong faith with God?
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mattG



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Greenwich UK

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last sentence was from an astrology book by Abu Ali al Khayyat. He lived in a Muslim country and felt obliged to profess his faith. Although Britain is nominally a Christian country most people consider religion and belief to be a matter of conscience. This is my own opinion. You will not find a general consensus from astrologers.

Matt
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mattG



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Greenwich UK

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you interested in scientific research into the effects of planets on natural phenomena? If so the work of Michel Gauquelin may be of interest.When I get home I will look at the contents of "Written in the Stars" by that author.
I have heard of experiments that show planetary movements changing the way that chemical processes happen and that Saturn does indeed rule lead!

Matthew
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raphnix



Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 22

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michel Gauquelin? Do you have any link about this book sale on the web. I think I would have difficulties finding it to libraries and bookstore since it's more likely to be rare. I'm quite interested so can you?
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mattG



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 345
Location: Greenwich UK

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raphnix wrote:
Michel Gauquelin? Do you have any link about this book sale on the web. I think I would have difficulties finding it to libraries and bookstore since it's more likely to be rare. I'm quite interested so can you?


I need to make space on my bookshelves so you can have my old copies if you like.

Regards Matt
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skippy sanchez



Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 35
Location: California

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it interesting that scientists [ Astronomers/Astro Physicists] have recently discovered a "Gravity Well' some 61+ degrees in Jupiters wake. This is nearly a perfect sextile.
This "Well" is a zone of receptiveness to the orbit of Jupiter. Meaning that an object placed there in stasis will be towed behind Jupiter at the same constant distance.
It's almost as if the effect of the sextile is picked up and carried by Jupiter 'forward' with the planet. There are also theories on applying the musical scale and the spectrum of light to the Zodiac. Newton had some interesting theories that he published on the spectrum application.
My cousin and fellow Astrologer, Dave Mastry, has a theory on the application of the musical notes to the Zodiac that he elaborated on over at the Astrodienst forum under a thread titled 'Birth Chart of the Universe".
This theory of His involves the "Kabbalistic Astrology" book of Rabbi Dobin and how it corresponds with the Sabian Symbols to determine where the OM of creation originated from [The 'Word in the Beginning']. The Rabbi re-translated Habukuk to read that the force of God comes from between Capricorn and Aquarius. Om by Vedic science is in the Key of 'B'. Thus by applying a 14 point grid on the Zodiac begininng with the point 00* 00' 00" Aquarius and proceding toward Pisces there is to be a point every 25.714285 degrees [Half the slope of the 'Great Pyramid']. The hypothetical but non-existant 'B#' and 'E#' must be accounted for by Daves theory.
When the points are connected by 7ths or 5ths [as is the law of musical scale harmonics] you end up with a 12 pointed 'Star Matrix' consisting of two groups of 7 points & 5. Note that the signs come out grouped as they are presently arranged above and below the equator. Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scopio, Sagittarius, Capricon and Aquarius are the '7', and the remainder the '5'
This also correponds to some ancient Mesopotamian or Babylonian bas-reliefs we have seen with a man beneath an arragement of Stars above him in this configuration.
The 12 point Matrix is supposed to represent the "True Path of Discpleship' by some sources [The writings of Dorthy Leon is one]
And if it's as Rudhyar stated that all paths of discipleship begin in Virgo. This is highly illuminating as the first point that one connects to from 00* 00' 00" Aquar. is the point in Virgo in the 22nd degree [I don't have the exact co-ordinate handy] when one connects these 'Dots' in cycles of 5ths or 7ths.
Also the Sabians that are at these points are most interesting if viewed with the hypothesis they represent the "True Path of Discipleship"...all in all, pretty far outstuff, I'll admit...but this theory has got a lot going for it.
It can also be possibly viewed as another picece of the puzzle in the "As Above, So Below" school of thought.
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Martin Lewicki



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are lagrangian points. They are not a new discovery and have been known about since 1750. They are a well-known consequence of Newtonian mechanics applied to orbits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_points

Martin
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skippy sanchez



Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 35
Location: California

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin. I don't know that these are the same two things. i.e. Lagrangian points and Jupiters gravity well.
The points you mention are in regards to 3 bodies and the interactions of their respectve gravitational fields.
I understand this 'Well' of Jupiters' to be of a singular effect attributable to Jupiter alone.
I admit I am not an Astro-physicist by any stretch of the imagination. I only took a Freshman course in Astronomy in College.
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Martin Lewicki



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lagrange 4 and 5 are at ~60 deg before and after in the orbit of Jupiter - just as you alluded. What is your source?

Martin
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skippy sanchez



Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 35
Location: California

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said, I'm way out of my league here.
My source is a friend in the San Francisco area whom has a degree in Physics. Unfortunately he suffered a severe stroke this past spring and is still very much incapacitated.
What I found on the internet regarding "Jupiters Gravity Well" seems to indicate it is singular in that it doesn't need to account for the influence of any other Orbs.
I believe I will humbly back off from this thread. Like I said, "I'm way out of my League here."
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Martin Lewicki



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 46

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skippy

Sorry to hear about your friend. And now he is not around to clear this up.

If you are referring to this reference on the net...

http://www.nature1st.net/bogan/orbits/sstravel/Jupiter_flyby.htm

...the gravity well diagram refers to Jupiter itself, not a point 60 degrees away on it orbit.

BTW I teach astronomy at the Adelaide Planetarium and I have not heard of the "gravity well" as you describe, though it coincides with lagrange 4 & 5 which are equilibrium points that hold bodies 60 deg ahead and behind Jupiter.

Martin
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skippy sanchez



Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 35
Location: California

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin, like I said, I'm way out of my league here. I have a degree in Liberal Arts.
My friend, whom I mention, has numerous [I believe 2 or 3] degrees in areas of study and is one of a 'gang' of fellows I attended High School and the same college with here in No. Calif. In fact I believe he had nearly completed the requirements for a couple of more. He was/is quite a 'driven' man...probably what contributed to his stroke so early in life, as he is/was quite 'high strung'.
We all used to get together once a year for a "Billiards Tourney" and these discussions often took place after many a 'pint' [as you Brits like to say] and most often were illustrated on the billiards table utlizing the balls and cues and whatever else may have been handy at the moment.
Jim, [that is this fellows name] would have to 'Dumb Down' his explanations for the rest of us. Among the 'Gang' are men with degrees in Political Science, Philosophy, History, Literature and Fine Arts. Only Jim has a degree in the 'Sciences'.
I suggest using 'Google' and search using the keywords 'Jupiter' and 'Gravity Well' for anymore on this.
I am interested in what you have to add to, embellish or define on this subject.

...Martin, forgive me. I 'Googled' your planetarium and see you are an Aussie and not a Brit...maybe by ancestry though, eh?
Give my regards to your fellow countrywoman and reknowed astrologer, Lynda Hill, if you happen to know her.
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Martin Lewicki



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Already done Google. All (dozens I looked at) refer only to Jupiter itself.

The term "gravity well" refers to a concentration of gravity as you would find where planet is located.

The Lagrange points 60 deg ahead and behind Jupiter are not gravity wells. They are equilibrium points where three forces balance out holding a body in place. So it is opposite to a singular gravity well.

Since you mention "gravity well" at one of these Lagrange points this is a contradiction in terms - they can't be both.

I suspect we have a major confusion and loss in translation in the process of transmission from your source.

Martin
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