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Hi Andrew,

I had to remove one of your recent posts because it was breaking copyright. In general - its OK to reproduce from works out of copyright, but if they are recent publications then you need to adhere to the copyright notices in the book. Small quotes to illustrate a point you are making are usually OK according to a 'fair use' policy.

Also, just to be on the safe side, I replaced Gijada's diagram with a link. If text or diragrams are reproduced with permission, can members please say so at the time of posting?

Mark - Hope to come back to your question later when I have a little more time.

Deb

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Yikes! I gave attribution, I thought it was okay. Also, I reproduced the material from the on-line Google preview pages, so didn't think there would be a problem.

Unfortunately, there are no out-of-copyright texts that go into the matter as thoroughly as Greenbaum does.

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Unfortunately, there are no out-of-copyright texts that go into the matter as thoroughly as Greenbaum does.
Agreed. Alas, this sort of thing is the reason why we need to actually buy books from time to time:) Still, it keeps the industry moving.

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Alas, this sort of thing is the reason why we need to actually buy books from time to time:) Still, it keeps the industry moving.
In that respect Dorian Greenbaum's book is an excellent investment as she pulls together so much material from the tradition. I am finding it one of the most useful books in my library just now.

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Yes, well, I bought three copies of her book last year: one for myself, one for a friend, and one for my local library. So I think I've done my bit for the industry. ;-)

The material I originally posted included her rationale for using Lilly's phases rather than Ptolemy's. It was easier to copy it from one screen to another (instead of trying to hold the book open while I typed). For those who want to "preview" the material for themselves, this link may help (provided it's still "in play"):

http://books.google.com/books?id=r3i6Dv ... QkeXQqa3KA

But of course, I encourage anyone interested in this topic who doesn't yet own her book to ... buy it! It's well worth the investment.

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It now appears that neither system is entirely accurate. In fact it would perhaps make more sense to divide the circle into 45 degree segments. In that way, waning crescent to waxing crescent would be cold/moist (phlegmatic), then waxing crescent to waxing gibbous warm/moist (sanguine) and so on. Just another thought.
Hello, Ficina.
I agree with Deborah Houlding in one of his previous post.
Qualities depend on which planets we are talking about. A drier Moon in a chart because of her phase could not be as dry as a moist Saturn, at least I think so.

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Anyone interested in the topic of temperament might find this very helpful:

http://www.academyofastrology.org/tradi ... ition1.pdf

One of the featured articles in this journal is entitled "Judging Temperament," written by Luis Ribeiro. This article is particularly noteworthy (and well worth reading) because it directly addresses a matter highlighted in Greenbaum's Temperament, i.e., the nativity of an English merchant and the critique of Lilly's method for judging the temperament of the native.

I am tempted to think that had I read the above article a couple of years ago, I might never have bought Greenbaum's book in the first place ... but that would have been a shame, since still it contains a great deal of valuable information.

Needless to say, Lilly's Moon phases are used throughout. Interestingly, Ribeiro notes that Venus is invariably reckoned as hot and moist (rather than cold and moist) in temperament assessment, and suggests that the North Node be taken as hot and moist, the South Node as cold and dry. Fascinating material.

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Andrew wrote:One of the featured articles in this journal is entitled "Judging Temperament," written by Luis Ribeiro. This article is particularly noteworthy (and well worth reading) because it directly addresses a matter highlighted in Greenbaum's Temperament, i.e., the nativity of an English merchant and the critique of Lilly's method for judging the temperament of the native.

I am tempted to think that had I read the above article a couple of years ago, I might never have bought Greenbaum's book in the first place ... but that would have been a shame, since still it contains a great deal of valuable information.

Needless to say, Lilly's Moon phases are used throughout. Interestingly, Ribeiro notes that Venus is invariably reckoned as hot and moist (rather than cold and moist) in temperament assessment, and suggests that the North Node be taken as hot and moist, the South Node as cold and dry. Fascinating material.
This was a really interesting article. From Greenbaum's book one gets an impression that every renaissance astrologer used a bit different method of judging temperament (and it's a bit mess), but Ribeiro shows us that actually the methods were almost identical! He lays the method to us clearly and I will tinker with it today in practice.

One interesting point was that following Lilly, Garcaeus, Junctinus, etc. Ribeiro suggests dealing with the Sun and the Moon entirely according to their season (the Sun) and phase (the Moon), forgetting here their natural qualities (the Sun as naturally choleric and the Moon as naturally phlegmatic). So if the Sun for example is aspecting the Ascendant and is in tropical Pisces, it should be considered giving moisture and coldness. This would explain a few points I've been wondering in real charts...

There were many good articles in this journal, a lot of food for thought.

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It's a wonderfully illuminating paper in a first-rate journal that is chock-full of enlightening articles. I plan to subscribe.

Greenbaum writes that Lilly "hedges his bets" and that (in his assessment of the nativity of a merchant) his method for determining temperament "does not pick it up," so that he is "forced to rationalize his direct observations of the man," and that Lilly "crashes on the rocks of temperament assessment," since his method does not back up his observational assessment. Ribeiro disabuses his readers of this notion.

She also writes that "there is no one universally agreed-upon technique for determining temperament," with "7 techniques ... in or out of fashion." But as Ribeiro notes in his paper, "The method is coherent throughout all authors regarding its theory and significators. There is only one method; the differences appear only in the collection of testimonies ... This is the lead the modern practitioner of the Traditon must follow to obtain reliable results."