16
Actually the thing about Physics I always liked is that a law really is a law, unlike chemistry there are no 20+ qualifiers attached to a law in Physics, there are however a lot of theories. And Currently things such as anti-matter and Dark Matter, etc. are all theory. Lovely mathematical equations that express all kinds of idea, but have little or no supporting examples.

There is also a lot of Philosophy, generally called Mathematics, involved within experiments. One of the biggest problems here is that you are working with some serious chaos theory and really the Uncertainty quotient here must be astounding.

Of course I haven't ever known that to stop a scientist from going forth and experimenting. No matter how much they look you seriously in the eye and tell you they've thought of all contingencies... um take it with a grain of salt. ;-)

On the other hand, I really dont expect the world to end. I'm certainly not holding my breath waiting for any such occurance. ;-)

Granny
fysics is phun!

17
The CERN accellerator is down and for the time being and the financial markets suddenly turned and is taking a breather from the fear of a 'black hole' effect and a financial melt down.

Financial guru Peter Warren said in Norway that with the current financial crises brought the world to the brink of the end of civilization as we know it.

I suppose we will have to watch out when they start the accellerator up again, won't we? :???:
http://www.astronor.com

18
Yes - the Collider came on-stream when the Sun and Saturn conjunction opposite Uranus was lit up by the Lunar transit casting a trine to the conjunction was also applying to sextile with Uranus.

That was quite descriptive I thought - a scientific experiment (Saturn) into high energy physics (Uranus) achieving "first light" (Sun/Moon)

Now we are told it's damaged and there will be delays just as the transit of Mars throws a quincunx to Uranus (damaging accident causing adjustment to plans quite reasonably shown there - supported by tr. Mars being conjunct tr. Mercury too )

mike c

19
The CERN accellerator is down and for the time being and the financial markets suddenly turned
Hi -
I guess if you could draw one obvious analogy between CERN and the financial crisis it would be that both are seen through the lens of hyper-inflated fears with little basis in reality!

Its hardly surprising that Jupiter's station and return to direct motion should "up the ante" and inflate those Saturnian/Virgo fears with its self-doubt and lack of faith in the ability to understand and skillfully handle things etc.. especially when staring at the unpredictablity of Uranus!
mike c

21
Andrew J. Bevan wrote:Oh - and before we begin, who's paying for this?
(Just a phrase that came to mind.)
It's alright, Andrew - apparently the American taxpayer is going to be paying for everything.

Thanks for pointing out the Neptune return, Mike; that Neptune/Jupiter conjunction next summer looks more and more interesting.

Malcolm

22
Thanks for pointing out the Neptune return, Mike;
hi malcolm thats quite alright - with a very very tight conjunction twixt Mercury and Neptune in my chart - I guess its not surprising that I should babble on about matters Neptunian! :D

Re Dark Matter: I've just been googling and discovered it was first mentioned in 1933 by astronomer Fritz Zwicky. I've no publication date but that year had a Square between Uranus and Pluto! Fritz Zwicky was born feb 14 1898 in Varna Bulgaria, so his natal chart would have an opposition twixt Saturn and Pluto. Pluto closing into conjunction with Neptune

Somehow the Pluto aspect connections seems fitting for dark matter. Its worth mentioning that many people think it will be discovered fairly soon, not first at CERN but in underground laboratories (Pluto again!) especially the facility in Boulby in Yorkshire UK, which is an old underground salt mine.

Incidentally Zwicky's birthchart has a 26th degree of Aquarius Sun so he's conjunct with that Neptune discovery degree and that Jupiter/Neptune conjunction in May next year!!!
mike c

23
Dark Matter ... was first mentioned in 1933 by astronomer Fritz Zwicky. I've no publication date but that year had a Square between Uranus and Pluto!
Hi Mike

I don't know when he made his observations, but in late 1932 that Uranus/Pluto square received a tight semi-square/sesquiquadrate from a Jupiter/Neptune conjunction (though I don't see any obvious resonance with his birth-chart). According to Wikipedia the idea was largely ignored until 1975 when Vera Rubin announced observations that seemed to require it. The observations were apparently made in 1974 (according to a BBC site) - in late 1974 Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto were all closely aspecting that 1932 Jupiter/Neptune conjunction (by opposition, square & semi-sextile respectively, with Jupiter and Neptune both sequiquadrate the 1932 Pluto).

It's interesting to speculate like this, but I suspect the chance of finding robust connections is very slim. My feeling is that important planetary configurations correspond to moments of decision rather than events, so the dates that ideas are presented publicly (which are the dates that are recorded) are less significant than the times when observations are made. But I'll guess that the most significant times astrologically are the moment of interpretation - the moment when Zwicky perhaps rejected an even wilder explanation in favour of 'dark matter', and the moments when Vera Rubin understood the significance of what she had seen and connected her observations to his. And those are moments whose timing we can never know.

It might be interesting to look at where the galaxies they observed map onto the ecliptic - but having skimmed Mark's explanations in the Scheat thread I don't think I'll go that way!
Somehow the Pluto aspect connections seems fitting for dark matter. Its worth mentioning that many people think it will be discovered fairly soon
When I look at how many unverifiable assumptions lie behind cosmological theories, I find it hard to have any faith in any of them. As an example, most of what we infer about the universe is based on the assumption that 'the gravitational constant' is a universal constant rather than a local one. It's a very sensible working assumption - in fact it would be positively foolish not to explore that possibility first - but believing it is another matter, especially when it leads to conclusions (such as 'Space expanding') that defy reason.

The faith that the scientific establishment has in some of these theories seems to me to stem more from a fear of ignorance than from real understanding - a fear of having to say "We just don't know". Even if they turn out to be right, I think it's essentially illusion. I'd say their faith in the theories belongs to Neptune more than to Pluto - perhaps another side of the 'Masters of the Universe' syndrome that took hold of the financial sector.

Since Andrew wondered if there is some kind of synchronicity operating between 'dark matter' and the financial turmoil, perhaps it's worth mentioning that 1932/33, when Zwicky made his observations, was when Roosevelt was elected and implemented the New Deal that pulled the USA out of the Depression. It was 3 years after the Great Crash, so it's a bit of a stretch, but it's something to consider.

Malcolm

24
My feeling is that important planetary configurations correspond to moments of decision rather than events,
hi I guess its possible to "have it both ways" ie major configurations encapsulating both the germ of an event in decisions etc, along with its consequences, with faster moving planetary applications etc to the configuration denoting events.

I personally tend to do that anyway since I'm not a fan of using outer planet aspects to define events by themselves.

One other thing - the physics as "just theory". One thing you mentioned was anti -matter. One concrete use of that particular theory is in medical brain scanners using the Positron, which is the mirror image reversed charge "anti-matter" version of an electron.
mike c

25
Since Andrew wondered if there is some kind of synchronicity operating between 'dark matter' and the financial turmoil, perhaps it's worth mentioning that 1932/33, when Zwicky made his observations, was when Roosevelt was elected and implemented the New Deal that pulled the USA out of the Depression. It was 3 years after the Great Crash, so it's a bit of a stretch, but it's something to consider.
Wow, I love this one! It sounds like running a hedgefund to cover up for a deficiancy in the accounts!! :D :'
http://www.astronor.com

26
Andrew J. Bevan wrote:
Since Andrew wondered if there is some kind of synchronicity operating between 'dark matter' and the financial turmoil, perhaps it's worth mentioning that 1932/33, when Zwicky made his observations, was when Roosevelt was elected and implemented the New Deal that pulled the USA out of the Depression. It was 3 years after the Great Crash, so it's a bit of a stretch, but it's something to consider.
Wow, I love this one! It sounds like running a hedgefund to cover up for a deficiancy in the accounts!! :D :'
Actually I see that the correspondence is better than I thought, now that I've read a bit more. The 1929 crash was of the stock market rather than the core financial system - that came later. The failures in the banking system apparently happened in three waves in the early thirties, with the third and largest coming between late 1932 and spring 1933 - after the Jupiter/Neptune conjunction, so more or less the same time that dark matter was first postulated.

It's easy to see why financial bubbles might be linked to the cycle of Jupiter/Neptune - the planets of expansion and illusion - in which case last week's excitement could just be the middle phase of a longer crisis. We can perhaps expect the stabilisation measures taken last week to work until next summer, but looking at Friday's bounce it's hard to believe that the era of 'irrational exuberance' is over.

And perhaps by then CERN will have got over its teething problems and be ready to smash hadrons together in earnest!

Malcolm

27
A few years back the bankruptcy laws of the US were "updated" When that update occured one of the things that changed, which I think is a huge contributor to the current crisis, was that Judges were no longer allowed to take a home loan and revamp it with the intent that the current person would keep their house and pay off the loan but at a pay rate they could afford.

I think it was a huge mistake to take that power from the judges. Then overinflation of the property market on top of that! they(housing lenders) are now in a position where the government is being forced to do that very same thing (take the home loans adn re-write them). The government in taking on the risky loans only hope of regaining the cashflow is in doing just what they stopped judges from doing in the firstplace. re-writing the loans. while you say the taxpayer is paying for it, I'd suggest to you that yes they are, the home owners are after all taxpayers and at the moment one of seven homes for sale are in forcloser.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/24965856

The only way to work this is to re-write the loans and default as few as possible else it would be a worse nightmare than 1930's .

Now having said all that, doesn't that seem like a VERY Pluto transiting into Capricorn thing? that may be me applying it to myself somewhat as to me Capricorn represents home, real estate etc, my IC is capricorn. so possibly I'm a bit more inclined to see it that way, BUT the taking apart and putting back together of a financial system is Very Pluto in Capricorn, Take the whole reformation beginnings, or even the US as a country beginning, both very pluto into Capricorn oriented.

Pluto+ capricorn = Change + Management

yes???
Granny

PS apparently someone was listening to my thoughts because look at this!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080922/ap_ ... l_meltdown