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"Will McCain win?"

 
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:29 am    Post subject: "Will McCain win?" Reply with quote

.
I asked the question, Will McCain win?

Using Frawley's formula, using the moon's aspect alone, McCain wins: Moon is conjoining with Mars in minutes.

BUT, Mars is in the 7th house, the opponent's side. That is a negative for McCain according to Frawley.

Does the moon's aspect trump that? Frawley seems to indicate that the moon will predict the winner and that you look to these other things only when it doesn't aspect one of the candidates.

Problem is, in my previous question "Will BO win?" The moon aspected BO's ruler.

So Yuzuru if you're reading this...does McCain win? Which chart is stronger?

The 7th ruler, Venus SQ Saturn, ruler of 10th.

I normally consider both the house ruler as well as the intercepted house and ruler. But here, Mars and Venus would rule both of them so I'm ignoring the intercepted houses. Any comments on how to handle that?

RC


Last edited by RC on Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This question is merely another version of the Obama question. Out of annoyance (“Oh dear, that one's asking again ...”) the spirits of horary astrology just might lead you around in circles and get a few chuckles out of your bewildered head scratching.
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk wrote:
This question is merely another version of the Obama question. Out of annoyance (“Oh dear, that one's asking again ...”) the spirits of horary astrology just might lead you around in circles and get a few chuckles out of your bewildered head scratching.


Hey Kirk:

That one??

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/that-one-mccain-calls-oba_n_132802.html

RC
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1394

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, RC
I agree with Kirk... thatīs one of the reasonīs I donīt trust much horary to do mundane questions.
You asked exactly the same questions with a different style. First you asked if Obama would win, now if McCain would win. It is not good politics to re ask the same question because you didnīt like the answer.

I donīt think you can answer every horary. Many people think so, I donīt. I have seen how important horaries like "should I make this surgery?" are pretty much screaming "surgery", with things like mars partile conjunct pars of surgery, etc.

And then we see in questions like "Am I pregnant?", where all querent have to do is go downstairs and buy a home test, but think it is easy to go online and ask about it. And then nothing works... it is not "sacred space" anymore, it is just a chart.

Same way, when you ask a question more than once, no matter how much you are worried about the matter, the stars simply will stop bothering. Sometimes I do this, when I cast a chart, forget what was the time, cast another, etc.

But, answering your question: we have a conjunction between people (moon) and Mccain, with reception. But McCain will loose as moon is transfering his 12th ruler (jupiter) to him, and besides that, moon is combust, so she canīt really raise him to victory, as she has almost no light.
_________________
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yuzuru wrote:


But, answering your question: we have a conjunction between people (moon) and Mccain, with reception. But McCain will loose as moon is transfering his 12th ruler (jupiter) to him, and besides that, moon is combust, so she canīt really raise him to victory, as she has almost no light.


Hi Y:

Makes sense...

... except why confine Jupiter to 12th house rulership? It also rules 9th, legalizing one's status. And its in the 10th house, giving it accidental dignity as well and its trining the 10th ruler, Saturn.

But Frawley sais nothing in his book on any of these considerations. He states you ignore receptions, etc. and look just for an aspect.

All these will be interesting to go back over after Tues.



RC ('that one')

P.S.

"It is not good politics to re ask the same question because you didnīt like the answer. "

That wasn't why I asked the question. I was looking for confirmations on the first reading.
Smile
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1394

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, same principle, you canīt ask two horaries to see if the one "was right". If you feel it wasnīt, just wait and see.

If you ask enough horaries, eventually one will contradict the others, so I would stick to the first one.
_________________
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My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"It is not good politics to re ask the same question because you didnīt like the answer. "

That wasn't why I asked the question. I was looking for confirmations on the first reading.


Don't you think that's being somewhat sneaky towards horary astrology and shows a lack of trust and belief? Such checking up and second guessing ultimately prevents any significant advancement in horary abilities. By holding in your mind the option of later asking the same thing again differently, you've created the strong possibility that the first chart will be meaningless for you. Those terribly busy spirits of horary astrology will mutter “Why bother? We're going to be hearing from that one again, anyway.”

You gotta have faith and trust that the first question gives the answer. If it's too early to tell or otherwise unclear the first chart will tell you.



PS: If you disapprove of talk of 'the spirits of horary astrology' substitute with 'the voices in your head'.
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk wrote:
Quote:
"It is not good politics to re ask the same question because you didnīt like the answer. "

That wasn't why I asked the question. I was looking for confirmations on the first reading.


Don't you think that's being somewhat sneaky towards horary astrology and shows a lack of trust and belief?

No, not in the horary, but in my own interpretation.
Kirk wrote:


Such checking up and second guessing ultimately prevents any significant advancement in horary abilities. By holding in your mind the option of later asking the same thing again differently, you've created the strong possibility that the first chart will be meaningless for you. Those terribly busy spirits of horary astrology will mutter “Why bother? We're going to be hearing from that one again, anyway.”

You gotta have faith and trust that the first question gives the answer. If it's too early to tell or otherwise unclear the first chart will tell you.



Well I know you're not supposed to ask same question twice but technically speaking, it was in fact a different question.

RC
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
- Don't you think that's being somewhat sneaky towards horary astrology and shows a lack of trust and belief?

- No, not in the horary, but in my own interpretation.

If that were the case wouldn't it more correctly be a matter of working on your interpretation, approaching the chart from a new angle, etc? You were given an answer. Changing from 'Does A win?' to 'Does B Win?' in order to get a new chart (that you can possibly once again doubt) accomplishes nothing except diminish your faith and belief in being given an accurate and appropriate chart to begin with.


Quote:
Well I know you're not supposed to ask same question twice but technically speaking, it was in fact a different question.

Crafty word-games make the spirits angry and uncooperative. Twisted Evil


Boo!

Happy Halloween! Smile
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk wrote:

Crafty word-games make the spirits angry and uncooperative. Twisted Evil


Boo!

Happy Halloween! Smile



http://rcsastrocharts.synthasite.com/resources/WickedLaf1C.wav



Happy Halloween !

RC
Razz
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RC, I thought about asking a chart on Obama winning but I'm comfortable on your previous Horary on Obama'a win: although I hate the way the end of the matter is sorta vague.

You and I both know there are many different horary techniqes, and I've done a few where the first aspect to the Lord of the matter were cancelled out by just what you have mentioned.

I'm of the beleif at present it is a tenth house matter but the 5th representing his election should also correlate strongly. In other words Leo, ruled by the Sun should also be favorable.

It's not in your horary that it is void of aspects: no aspects mean no action.

I'm basing this on Lilly's observance of both the 7th and 2nd when dealing with theivery. Why he consulted two houses for answers!

Unfortuanately in Lilly's time and before there were few democratic elections so horary's immediate past is all we have to go on.

And using my past McCain horary, the Moon was conjuncting the Sun: a new Moon even though cazimi. The Point is according to Frawley he should win except the lunation is classified as a disaster.

Two astrologers should have simular findings if they are earnest; in other words shouldn't the outcomes be simular?

Clinton Soule
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: "Will McCain win?" Reply with quote

RC wrote:
.
I asked the question, Will McCain win?

Using Frawley's formula, using the moon's aspect alone, McCain wins: Moon is conjoining with Mars in minutes.

BUT, Mars is in the 7th house, the opponent's side. That is a negative for McCain according to Frawley.

Does the moon's aspect trump that? Frawley seems to indicate that the moon will predict the winner and that you look to these other things only when it doesn't aspect one of the candidates.

Problem is, in my previous question "Will BO win?" The moon aspected BO's ruler.

So Yuzuru if you're reading this...does McCain win? Which chart is stronger?

The 7th ruler, Venus SQ Saturn, ruler of 10th.

I normally consider both the house ruler as well as the intercepted house and ruler. But here, Mars and Venus would rule both of them so I'm ignoring the intercepted houses. Any comments on how to handle that?

RC


In this chart, even tho the moon (the electorate) is conjoining Mars, McCain, they are both in the 7th, the enemy camp. This is always a negative in contests. Also, moon in fall is not helping Mars. So this chart doesn't really contradict my very first chart, "Will BO win?"

All who said you can't use horary to answer this question credibly, I think you may want to rethink that. I asked several times, different ways and looked at Kali's chart "Will republicans win" and they all favored BO using Frawley's technique for elections.

The natal on the other hand, led me astray with all those 'wonderful' aspects for McCain! Laughing

RC
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