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Will Barack Obama win?
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.
Since the turned chart caused some confusion, I have posted the radical unturned chart:




RC
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The complete question is "Will Obama win the race for Presidency of USA over McCain?" There you have 1st and 7th house interaction, with Obama on the 1st and McCain on the 7th. 10th house would represent the government of the United States. How the rulers of those houses interact give you your answer.

I had asked a similar question "Will Republicans win the Presidency of the United States?" back when the race first started. On that chart I put the Republicans in the first house and the Democratic opponents were in the 7th.

In your chart, neither the 1st or 7th house rulers interact with the 10th house ruler and that would give me pause for concern.
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kali wrote:


I had asked a similar question "Will Republicans win the Presidency of the United States?" back when the race first started. On that chart I put the Republicans in the first house and the Democratic opponents were in the 7th.
.


I did a search for that but didn't find your question. Did you post it to the forum? Would be interesting to see.

RC
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Will Barack Obama win? Reply with quote

RC wrote:
After watching the Democratic convention last night, I wondered if Obama would actually win and thus this question was born.

I turned the chart so that the 7th house was rising. Is that the house you'd use?

Actual question was: Will Barack Obama win?

If the chart is turned correctly, it doesn't appear he will as his ruler is on the 12th cusp and disposited by his rival, McCain who is about to leave his fall from grace position in Virgo and enter into Libra where he will attain dignity.

CHART TURNED WITH 7th HOUSE RISING


RC


Interesting development since doing this chart. Shortly after asking the question, Mercury moved into Libra putting it in mutual reception with Venus, the two working together. John McCain, then made his BIG announcement re: Sara Palin as his VP pick which has taken Obama off the front page at least in the short term.

Will this be what turns things around for him as I saw up there where I said:
RC wrote:
"McCain who is about to leave his fall from grace position in Virgo and enter into Libra where he will attain dignity. "
This will no doubt get him more Hillary voters as well as more conservatives who are not happy with him.

RC
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard to believe that Hillary Clinton supporters will vote for a gun-totin' NRA supporter who is also an anti-abortion crusader ... Sick just because she's a woman. I think (hope) this choice was a miscalculation on the Republicans' part. Now they can't credibly attack Obama for being inexperienced.

As far as the chart is concerned, Venus is in the very degree of its Fall and it doesn't strike me as plausible that this is outweighed by its future movement into Libra. The Moon's the thing and it's applying only to Mars. Neither candidate looks to be in great shape though.

Tara
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tara wrote:
Hard to believe that Hillary Clinton supporters will vote for a gun-totin' NRA supporter who is also an anti-abortion crusader ... Sick just because she's a woman. I think (hope) this choice was a miscalculation on the Republicans' part. Now they can't credibly attack Obama for being inexperienced.
Tara


LOL

I think this demonstrates why astrologists have such a poor record for picking the winner of political elections.

Its not easy to read a chart when you feel very strongly about either side/position. That is the very reason why I have trouble reading my own personal horaries when I am emotionally involved in the outcome. Later after the inevitable bad news happens, I can then look at the chart and finally see it for what it is and wonder why I ever had trouble with it. Smile

I feel comfortable now that this chart is accurately turned as the Venus/Mercury pair here does seem descriptive of McCain/Palin.

(btw, I never said who I was rooting for here)

RC
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RC said,
Quote:
I think this demonstrates why astrologists have such a poor record for picking the winner of political elections.


True enough. My heart sinks to think McCain will get in. I guess it's true that the average IQ is 100.

Quote:
(btw, I never said who I was rooting for here)


The fact that you gave Obama the 7th house suggests you are a McCain supporter???

Do tell.
Tara
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tara wrote:
RC said,
Quote:
I think this demonstrates why astrologists have such a poor record for picking the winner of political elections.


True enough. My heart sinks to think McCain will get in. I guess it's true that the average IQ is 100.

Quote:
(btw, I never said who I was rooting for here)


The fact that you gave Obama the 7th house suggests you are a McCain supporter???

Do tell.
Tara


I don't follow that rule that many here do when turning a chart. I follow the rule that whoever you're asking about, if they aren't described with more certainty as for example, your cousin, your doctor, your neighbor, etc., you use the 7th house.

So my feelings about the matter were not factored in at all. Cool

RC
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RC wrote:
kali wrote:


I had asked a similar question "Will Republicans win the Presidency of the United States?" back when the race first started. On that chart I put the Republicans in the first house and the Democratic opponents were in the 7th.
.


I did a search for that but didn't find your question. Did you post it to the forum? Would be interesting to see.

RC


No, I didn't post it but when my computer that has my astrology software on it comes back from the shop I will share it here. It's a good chart. Basically it shows Democrats winning. Ruler of 7th was Mars and it was in 10th house. Tenth house Capricorn was in late degree showing changing parties. Mars was in Aquarius, which I felt signified Obama and it turned out he was the parties nominee. Mars was moving into an opposition to Saturn and conj. with N. Node. This I was not sure how to read except to show the chaos that the Democrat party has endured.

Republican's ruler was Venus is in the 12th house and making no aspect to Saturn. If Mars showed a male then my thought was Venus signified female here. Now that the Vice Presidential nominee for Republicans is announced it makes sense and maybe shows Republicans losing because of her.

I'm a Republican btw. :-) I won't get my computer back til Tuesday.

If anyone has suggestions on the meaning of that Mars opposition to Saturn, I love hear them.
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RC,

From the Horary Practitioner: Doris Chase Doane explained in her book 'Contest Charts' explained the key factors in questions about contests:

"Contest charts are divided in two by mentally drawing a vertical line down through the horoscope from top to bottom. The east (left) side of the chart represents the challenger or one asked about, and the west (right) side maps the opposition. The 7th house becomes the 1st house of the opponent, and the 4th becomes the 10th house of honor for the opposition.

"When only one side is mentioned that team is allotted to the east. Even though unspoken, the implied opposition is ruled by the west side of the wheel."

None of Lilly's example charts deal with games or contests, but he did describe wars, and his rules about fighting apply here. "In it, the 1st house represents "our army" and the 7th represents " their army." The outcome depends on the location and condition of significator planets and their aspects."
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kali wrote:
RC,

From the Horary Practitioner: Doris Chase Doane explained in her book 'Contest Charts' explained the key factors in questions about contests:

"Contest charts are divided in two by mentally drawing a vertical line down through the horoscope from top to bottom. The east (left) side of the chart represents the challenger or one asked about, and the west (right) side maps the opposition. The 7th house becomes the 1st house of the opponent, and the 4th becomes the 10th house of honor for the opposition.

"When only one side is mentioned that team is allotted to the east. Even though unspoken, the implied opposition is ruled by the west side of the wheel."

None of Lilly's example charts deal with games or contests, but he did describe wars, and his rules about fighting apply here. "In it, the 1st house represents "our army" and the 7th represents " their army." The outcome depends on the location and condition of significator planets and their aspects."


Interesting.

Lilly did have examples of whether the King would keep power did he not? I haven't looked at that for a while but I seem to remember something about that.

RC
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a look at Obama's natal in a biwheel to see the transits on day of election.

Obama's Natal chart is the interior wheel. (Natal chart edited for correct time)

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Birth Time: 7:24 PM AHST, Aug. 4, 1961; Honolulu, HI



RC


Last edited by RC on Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:11 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What data are you using,RC? I have 7:24 pm birth time which gives Obama 18 Aquarius rising, but I know there's been confusion about his birth time. Am interested in knowing how you came by the chart you're using?

Tara
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RC wrote:
kali wrote:
RC,

From the Horary Practitioner: Doris Chase Doane explained in her book 'Contest Charts' explained the key factors in questions about contests:

"Contest charts are divided in two by mentally drawing a vertical line down through the horoscope from top to bottom. The east (left) side of the chart represents the challenger or one asked about, and the west (right) side maps the opposition. The 7th house becomes the 1st house of the opponent, and the 4th becomes the 10th house of honor for the opposition.

"When only one side is mentioned that team is allotted to the east. Even though unspoken, the implied opposition is ruled by the west side of the wheel."

None of Lilly's example charts deal with games or contests, but he did describe wars, and his rules about fighting apply here. "In it, the 1st house represents "our army" and the 7th represents " their army." The outcome depends on the location and condition of significator planets and their aspects."


Interesting.

Lilly did have examples of whether the King would keep power did he not? I haven't looked at that for a while but I seem to remember something about that.

RC


Kings usually did not compete for their power unless through war.

p.s. now that I've research these rules I have to reconsider my prediction of an Obama win. Fourth house on my chart has Saturn in very bad shape and opposing Mars. I look forward to posting the chart here.

This is a great place to learn!
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tara wrote:
What data are you using,RC? I have 7:24 pm birth time which gives Obama 18 Aquarius rising, but I know there's been confusion about his birth time. Am interested in knowing how you came by the chart you're using?

Tara


Hi Tara:

We're using same birth info/

Your chart is using AHST. I used AHDT. They were using day light savings time weren't they?

I used the info from here: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

RC
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