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Will Barack Obama win?
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
Posts: 475

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:49 pm    Post subject: Will Barack Obama win? Reply with quote

After watching the Democratic convention last night, I wondered if Obama would actually win and thus this question was born.

I turned the chart so that the 7th house was rising. Is that the house you'd use?

Actual question was: Will Barack Obama win?

If the chart is turned correctly, it doesn't appear he will as his ruler is on the 12th cusp and disposited by his rival, McCain who is about to leave his fall from grace position in Virgo and enter into Libra where he will attain dignity.

CHART TURNED WITH 7th HOUSE RISING


RC


Last edited by RC on Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tara



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 454

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi RC,

I don't understand what you mean when you say you "turned the chart so the 7th house was rising"??? I'd use the straight up first house to represent Obama in your question. It would be helpful if you could share the time and place of your question so we can check out the chart in Regiomontanus houses.

The Moon in kingly Leo on the Midheaven applies directly to the sextile of Mars, L1 (Obama). This seems like a positive answer to your question, despite Mars's poor condition. The Moon in mundane astrology refers to the will of the people. It looks like a coronation.

Tara
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tara wrote:
Hi RC,

I don't understand what you mean when you say you "turned the chart so the 7th house was rising"??? I'd use the straight up first house to represent Obama in your question. It would be helpful if you could share the time and place of your question so we can check out the chart in Regiomontanus houses.

The Moon in kingly Leo on the Midheaven applies directly to the sextile of Mars, L1 (Obama). This seems like a positive answer to your question, despite Mars's poor condition. The Moon in mundane astrology refers to the will of the people. It looks like a coronation.

Tara


I asked on August 27 - 08 at 11:02 PM, Winchester, VA. USA

Why would I not turn the chart ? I was asking about someone else who I don't really know which is reason I used the 7th as his Asc.

I noticed the 10th but was unsure if the 10th would be the party presently in power Or it could be HIS 10th house of success/fate.

If the chart were not turned, then of course we would have the reverse so whether to turn or not turn is important. That of course (not turning) would put the moon opposing the 10th.

RC
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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are supporter of Obama that you have to use 1st house, but if no, than it is OK to use 7 house ruler. I think you made right selection (7 house ruler) because 1st house than represent McCain, military proned, quite appropriate with ruler Ma of 1st house.
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mattG



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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Location: Greenwich UK

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject: Barak Reply with quote

Barbara Watters suggests that the time of nomination is suitable for a chart to assess the chances of a candidate. She gives H1 to group selecting him, H7 to the campaign H10 to the candidate and Saturn as ruler of the democrats. I have read elsewhere that one must first check the chances of the incumbent but in this case both candidates are new so it does not seem to apply.

See Horary Astrology chapter 9

Matt
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 800

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has to do with McCain and not Obama or the horary, but I got this off of LA Weekly:

Quote:
It's John McCain's 72nd birthday, and after writing a detailed description of his progressed chart, I got depressed and bailed. Sorry. The military presence (moon-Mars) is prominent this year and, since his progressed sun in Scorpio trines his Cancer midheaven (which is very close to the USA sun) so are his chances for success. Not the only indication.
.

I know nothing about progressions, but this is of some concern. To me.

Although I agree with Goca about Mars being a good significator for McCain, I also wonder about the turned chart...why not use the 1st for Obama since he is the topical subject of the question? Unless you're a McCain supporter, of course...

GH Smile
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Barbara Watters suggests that the time of nomination is suitable for a chart to assess the chances of a candidate. She gives H1 to group selecting him, H7 to the campaign H10 to the candidate and Saturn as ruler of the democrats. I have read elsewhere that one must first check the chances of the incumbent but in this case both candidates are new so it does not seem to apply.


What Barbara Watters was suggesting sounds more like an event chart tied to the nomination? How is that timed? Is it when the delegates vote results are declared or the start of the nomination acceptance speech?

In horary I don't see why there should be a pre-set time for such questions. Surely, the key astrological 'moment' is when the questioner really wants to know an answer?
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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Although I agree with Goca about Mars being a good significator for McCain, I also wonder about the turned chart...why not use the 1st for Obama since he is the topical subject of the question?


Here is why. This type of question "Will Barack Obama win" is similar to question for example, "Will Manchester United win Zenit today?" John Frawley gave excellent explanation why team(person) that we support gets first house:

"Whether this question is asked by a supporter or someone taking part in the match, it is Us against Them. The team the querent supports is given the first house, as an extension of the self, in the same way that the querent would say 'we won', despite not himself playing. The unspeakable ruffians his team are competing against are the open enemies: 7th house."
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goca wrote:
If you are supporter of Obama that you have to use 1st house, but if no, than it is OK to use 7 house ruler. I think you made right selection (7 house ruler) because 1st house than represent McCain, military proned, quite appropriate with ruler Ma of 1st house.


Hi Goca:


The chart is already turned so the Mars is Obama. The radical chart had Taurus rising.

RC
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never have these problems with a political horary. But then I always know whose side I am on before I ask such questions. Smile

Surely you are more likely to get an accurate chart when the querent has some passion regarding which candidate they want to win? I certainly, find this helps in other kinds of horary questions.

Still, I suppose the view here is that a person could be concerned about the outcome for their country without favouring either candidate.
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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The chart is already turned so the Mars is Obama. The radical chart had Taurus rising.


Ok, I did not notice that, we usually upload "normal chart", not turned.. So, if you do not support Obama than he is represented with Ma in this chart, ruler of 7 house of radical, not turned, chart.

Quote:
Surely you are more likely to get an accurate chart when the querent has some passion regarding which candidate they want to win? I certainly, find this helps in other kinds of horary questions.



I appsolutelly agree with this!
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RC



Joined: 29 Jul 2007
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkC wrote:
I never have these problems with a political horary. But then I always know whose side I am on before I ask such questions. Smile

Surely you are more likely to get an accurate chart when the querent has some passion regarding which candidate will win?

I certainly , find that with other horary questions.


I have been very involved in the election hence, the horary.

But I did wonder since Obama has celebrity status, would it not be the 10th? Or because he's a Senator, even the 11th?

RC
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Goca



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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the chart is turned correctly, it doesn't appear he will as his ruler is on the 12th cusp and disposited by his rival, McCain who is about to leave his fall from grace position in Virgo and enter into Libra where he will attain dignity.


RC, you said chart is turned with Ta rising, if that is the case, Ma is not on cusp of 12 but on cusp of 6 house?!
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mattG



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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Watters Reply with quote

Mark
I only had the Watters book to hand to check a reference in another thread and I do not know where this technique comes from but she claims it is a form of horary. As to the exact time of nomination my best guess is start of acceptance speech but let us defer to any US posters in this matter.

Once done we can have the chart and see if it gives the right answer.

Last time I looked he was behind in the polls but according to a US commentator on the radio today 2% of respondents lie and large numbers of voters are registering for the first time to vote for Obama.

Could be close

Matt
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Goca



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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the chart is turned correctly, it doesn't appear he will as his ruler is on the 12th cusp and disposited by his rival, McCain who is about to leave his fall from grace position in Virgo and enter into Libra where he will attain dignity.


So, you said Obama is Ma, his ablity to win is represented with his turned 10th house ruler, Su. If we folow sports astrology rulers, fact that Moon is on cusp of his 10th house is sure sign that he will win. Moreover, that Moon has applaying aspect with his own (Obam's) ruler Ma, quite enough testimony that he will win.(This stands only if you are not suporter of Obama)
His oponent's ability to win is represented with combust Sa, so his chance to win are weak. Moon has no applaying aspect neighter with Sa or Ve.
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