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Quote by Theo:
"In this manner, it is also generational, as the Baby Boomers, who've rejected the very idea of aging, are being forced to come to terms with their own mortality. The young generation who rose to confront the establishment of the 1960s and 1970s now have to face their own mortality, and the fact that they are now the new senior citizens and elderly of the world. Sixty and 70 years of age is not the new 30 or 40s. The Baby Boomers have indeed aged and they must come to terms with this fact of life. Saturn will make it very clear during its transit in Virgo and entry into Libra that a new generation, born in the 1960s, is coming into power."

...It has been the observation of a number of Astrologers, here in the States, that the era of Pluto in Leo combined with Neptune in Libra produced the 'Baby Boom Era' phenomena "The Flower Children" [or somewhat derogatorily; "Hippies"]. A highly idealistic group of souls of which I am a part of. [and a great many of us also with Uranus in Cancer]
I feel I am only now coming to a mature understanding of the world. It should also be noted that these individuals are mostly between the ages of 50 to 62.
This is the time of Saturns second return for us and transiting Uranus squaring our natal Uranus positions. It should be an interesting period for us "Old Hippies".
Don't be in such a rush to seize power and controll my friend. You may get what you ask for.
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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newtons 3rd law of motion: "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."
This is true if you try mixing a bucket of cold with a bucket of hot water, but because we are talking qualitative mathematics here and the delivery of intent, I don't feel the equation is quite the same. There is a difference between applying the restraining quality of Saturn to the rebellious nature of Uranus to breaking up the structured patterns of Saturn with the spice of Uranus. We assume that the quality of Saturn is by principle unchanged when applied to modify the qualities of Uranus. It is not necessarily a blending of worlds. It could be more like a war where the order of the one regime is forced upon the other. What I mean is that there is a qualitative difference and quality of displeasure when you are sat on the wrong end of a slap in the face (excuse my imagery). However, a kiss, hug or embrace would be quite pleasurable for both parts. As lawyers meet in court it is important to distinguish who toppled the band wagon.
http://www.astronor.com

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Don't be in such a rush to seize power and control my friend. You may get what you ask for.
Sorry for drifting off the astrology but this comment made me smile. I see myself as one of ?that new generation, born in the 1960s, [supposedly] coming into power?, but actually facing the realisation that now that the yuppie-generation children have grown up and at last allowed a sense of space and creative freedom, the ?baby-boomer? parents are now getting quite old, forgetful, and increasingly dependent.

Mike ? I?m with you now, thanks.

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I aplogize for not being trained in 'Classical Astrology' as the majority of those who frequent this Forum are. But as Uranus is retrograde at this time whilst Saturn is direct...aren't both Planets 'applying' to each other right now? What if Saturn is retro and Uranus direct, are they not then 'mutually seperating'?...or what if they are both retro at the same time, for that matter?
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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MikeCoop wrote:... they seem to be describing Uranus applying to Saturn (which of course isn't possible except in specific circumstances), rather than Saturn applying to Uranus. Is that a fair comment???
Hi Mike

I think it would be a fair comment if Uranus ever did apply to Saturn, but as you say, that doesn't happen. The way we talk about it has more to do with how we perceive what happens on Earth than with the planetary motions - we experience Saturn through enduring institutions and Uranus through change, so it's natural to talk as though Uranus is happening to Saturn.

But if you're commenting on the expectation that the opposition will manifest destructively, rather than constructively - Uranus breaking up the Saturn structures, rather than Saturn providing a vehicle for the energies of Uranus - then your comment seems reasonable. In practice I would say that both happen together, but the destructive effects tend to be obvious immediately, whereas the constructive effects only become visible later - and the destructive side of it is easier to talk about, because it is acting on things we already know.

Malcolm

36
Quitefunky wrote:to buckets of water we apply the first law of thermodynamics: "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only change forms."
Point taken, but I was not sure how you wanted to apply Newtons 3rd Law of motion to the meaning of an opposition between Saturn and Uranus. Surely neither of the planets are heating up or bouncing off in some odd direction??
http://www.astronor.com

37
I aplogize for not being trained in 'Classical Astrology' as the majority of those who frequent this Forum are.
Don't worry - those that take it *really* seriously aren't looking at this thread because it has Uranus in it :)
But as Uranus is retrograde at this time whilst Saturn is direct...aren't both Planets 'applying' to each other right now? What if Saturn is retro and Uranus direct, are they not then 'mutually seperating'?...or what if they are both retro at the same time, for that matter?
I think Mike was talking about the general principle of inferiors applying to superiors, and not the specifics of what is happening right now. You are right that it is a mutual application if Uranus is retrograde, but since Saturn moves so much more quickly than Uranus, I don't think we can ever move away from the view that it is Saturn that makes the application to, or separation from, Uranus. (I am glad that the serious classical astrologers are not reading this comment, and so are not going to make any big deal out of that highly controversial - probably ridiculous - reference to Uranus being a 'superior planet').

According to my software, the two planets are now 1 minute of arc in their separation from each other (Uranus 18Pisces57R, Saturn 18Virgo58).

38
Digressing for a mo - I only realised recently that one of the distinctions some classical astrologers make for not including outers ie not naked eye objects is not actually true of Uranus - it is visible to a trained observer even without binoculars, albeit low magnitude - and only just visible. Make of that what you will!
hmm - now wheres my ephemeris for the International Space Station :-)
mike c

[/quote]

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I should also like to point out that natal Saturn for New York Stock Exchange is Aries, so Saturn through Libra is a culmination effect, as in, are we using our saturn as we ought transit. So may be more telling when it gets to that opposition than the Uranus Saturn Opposition.


Still looking into the saturn uranus aligned significations.

Granny

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... they seem to be describing Uranus applying to Saturn (which of course isn't possible except in specific circumstances), rather than Saturn applying to Uranus.
Of course I can't find it now, but somewhere in CA Lilly wrote something about Saturn being the planet of strongest authority and power because it was the last planet, and that the outer planets all have power over inner ones. He states this as the reason why Saturn can signify princes, people of great power, etc. ? being the outermost planet of his time it carried the most power and authority. Therefore, Saturn will have power over Mars rather than the reverse; Mars over Mercury rather than the reverse, etc. So in using Uranus (along with Neptune and Pluto) we now have a planet that has power over the prince; we are perhaps naturally applying the power of Uranus to Saturn in this way without really thinking about it. This sort of ties in with the idea of the outer planets beyond Saturn not being part of us in our personal make up, but as more universal factors that challenge, shake up, or destroy us ? or elements of us. This is why I personally can't avoid taking a peek at Uranus in a chart, but can fairly easily skip Neptune and Pluto altogether.

As the first planet beyond Saturn and the other visible planets, Uranus can serve well as the sole representative of the big-big factors of the beyond and their disruptive effect on the so-cozy safety of what the visible planets have formed out of clay. Some people might want to say that Uranus doesn't to it alone, that first after Saturn the door is opened by Uranus' hunch-backed laboratory assistant Igor (Chiron). I'm not ready to go that far. That wounded healer stuff ? there's too much built-in New Age whininess.

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"Therefore, Saturn will have power over Mars rather than the reverse; Mars over Mercury rather than the reverse, etc. So in using Uranus (along with Neptune and Pluto) we now have a planet that has power over the prince; we are perhaps naturally applying the power of Uranus to Saturn in this way without really thinking about it. This sort of ties in with the idea of the outer planets beyond Saturn not being part of us in our personal make up, but as more universal factors that challenge, shake up, or destroy us ? or elements of us. This is why I personally can't avoid taking a peek at Uranus in a chart, but can fairly easily skip Neptune and Pluto altogether."
...posted by Kirk
-----------------------------

I agree with you Kirk in that I have a modernist view of astrology also. But I disagree with you on dismissing Neptune and Pluto.
I have A Neptune /Saturn conjunction as part of a Harmonic or Mystic Rectangle in my natal chart that also includes Mercury, Venus, Pluto and the Moon.
Also Neptune and Pluto carry great influence on my chart by analysis, the Moon being the greatest..
I have had many great and profound experiences in my life due to the transits of the three known outer most Planets [Yes! I say Pluto is a Planet!]. This Matrix, the Harmonic Rectangle , like all natal matrices I have noticed, have a most profound effect when activated by the very same Planets, or Orbs, conjunct by transit to any of the degrees of the Zodiac involved in the configuration.
Last edited by Dave M. on Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
You are a Divine expression of the Universe.

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Kirk wrote:Some people might want to say that Uranus doesn't to it alone, that first after Saturn the door is opened by Uranus' hunch-backed laboratory assistant Igor (Chiron). I'm not ready to go that far. That wounded healer stuff ? there's too much built-in New Age whininess.
Wow, and I really spent some time on Chiron. I cannot but appreciate the pionering work of people like Al H. Morrison and Zane Stein and was a member of the ASC, the Association for Studying Chiron, in the early 80's. It was really exciting!! The community made a great effort in gathering emperical observations on probably the most interesting addition to the Solar system family for over half a century. I still have all my newsletters from that period, over 100 in number. I cannot remember anything whiny about the content of this work. The myth of Chiron as a wounded healer is surely of an earlier origin....
http://www.astronor.com