16
Tom wrote:I'm not sure since I've never paid much attention to the so-called "anaretic" degrees, but I think we're talking apples and oranges here. The idea that 29 - 30 degrees of a sign is "critical" or "anaretic" is a modern concept and I'm not sure where it came from. It may be related to the terms (bounds), but since moderns or at least late 19th century and later astrologers didn't use the bounds, I can't see how that could be.
Tom
Hello Tom!
I don't know if it is a proper source but Manilius (Astronomica, IV 433-497) gives as partes damnandae between the rest:
27 Aries, 30 Taurus, 29 Gemini, 29 Cancer, 30 Leo, 30 Virgo, 30 Libra, 29 Scorpio, 30 Sagittarius, 29 Aquarius and 22 Leo mentioned somewhere in this thread.

Critical degrees and 29 degrees different concept

17
Hello Tom,

Thank you for your very informative response!! However, I believe this thread is discussing TWO DIFFERENT concepts. One being Critical Degrees, which is a lost ancient use of the Lunar Mansions, from what I researched so far.

Then there is the concept of the last degrees of a sign 27-29, as being critical or portending a crisis or event.

I believe these two concepts need to be kept separate as the "traditional"???, (I realize it is not traditional in the sense of traditional Astrology, however, traditional in all the references I can find), use of Critical Degrees are not the 27-29, but 0, 13 and 26 degrees of all cardinal signs, 9 &21 of Fixed Signs and 4 & 17 of Mutuable Signs.

It is something to watch however, to see how many astrologers, if any, have found any merit or significant actual relationships to either of these concepts, in relationship to events, or characteristics.

Thanks so much

Re: Your Link

20
MorningSun wrote:Could you briefly share with us how they are using the critical degrees?
Hi,
the links above (or below) are my personal sites (I didn't manage to put them into my profile); they have nothing to do with "critical degrees" (if you want to read some stuff of mine: I translated several articles and placed them onto my 'astroInfo').
So here is Doebereiner's - in the meantime possibly changed - list (sorry, both are in German, but I guess you can read them):
4.5? Widder - Mars-Neptun
5.5? Widder - Uranus-Neptun
7.5? Widder - Uranus-Sonne
9.0? Widder - Uranus-Neptun
10.0? Widder - Uranus-Mond
14.0? Widder - Uranus-Jupiter
17.5? Widder - Uranus-Mars
22.0? Widder - Mars-Jupiter
24.0? Widder - Mars-Venus
27.5? Widder - Saturn-Neptun
3.0? Stier - Jupiter-Venus
5.0? Stier - Merkur-Uranus
7.0? Stier - Saturn-Mondknoten
10.0? Stier - Sonne-Pluto
10.5? Stier - Venus-Pluto
19.5? Stier - Mond-Pluto
20.0? Stier - Sonne-Pluto
23.0? Stier - Saturn-Mondknoten
25.0? Stier - Uranus-Merkur
27.0? Stier - Jupiter-Venus
2.5? Zwillinge - Saturn-Merkur
6.0? Zwillinge - Venus-Saturn
8.0? Zwillinge - Jupiter-Mars
12.5? Zwillinge - Mars-Saturn
20.0? Zwillinge - Uranus-Mond
21.0? Zwillinge - Uranus-Pluto
22.5? Zwillinge - Uranus-Sonne
24.5? Zwillinge - Uranus-Neptun
25.5? Zwillinge - Merkur-Neptun
4.5? Krebs - Mond-Neptun
5.5? Krebs - Uranus-Neptun
7.5? Krebs - Uranus-Sonne
9.0? Krebs - Uranus-Pluto
10.0? Krebs - Uranus-Mond
17.0? Krebs - Mond-Saturn
22.0? Krebs - Jupiter-Mars
24.0? Krebs - Mond-Venus
27.5? Krebs - Merkur-Saturn
28.0? Krebs - Mars-Pluto
3.0? L?we - Jupiter-Pluto
5.0? L?we - Merkur-Uranus
7.0? L?we - Saturn-Mondknoten
10.0? L?we - Sonne-Pluto
10.5? L?we - Mond-Pluto
19.5? L?we - Venus-Pluto
20.0? L?we - Sonne-Pluto
23.0? L?we - Saturn-Mondknoten
25.0? L?we - Merkur-Uranus
27.0? L?we - Jupiter-Sonne
2.5? Jungfrau - Saturn-Sonne
6.0? Jungfrau - Venus-Merkur
8.0? Jungfrau - Jupiter-Mars
12.5? Jungfrau - Uranus-Saturn
16.0? Jungfrau - Jupiter-Uranus
20.0? Jungfrau - Uranus-Mond
21.0? Jungfrau - Uranus-Neptun
22.5? Jungfrau - Uranus-Sonne
24.5? Jungfrau - Uranus-Neptun
25.5? Jungfrau - Neptun-Venus
4.5? Waage - Venus-Neptun
5.5? Waage - Uranus-Neptun
7.5? Waage - Uranus-Sonne
9.0? Waage - Uranus-Neptun
10.0? Waage - Uranus-Mond
14.0? Waage - Jupiter-Uranus
17.5? Waage - Uranus-Saturn
22.0? Waage - Jupiter-Mars
24.0? Waage - Venus-Merkur
27.5? Waage - Saturn-Sonne
3.0? Skorpion - Jupiter-Sonne
5.0? Skorpion - Uranus-Merkur
7.0? Skorpion - Saturn-Mondknoten
10.0? Skorpion - Sonne-Pluto
10.5? Skorpion - Venus-Pluto
19.5? Skorpion - Mond-Pluto
20.0? Skorpion - Sonne-Pluto
23.0? Skorpion - Saturn-Mondknoten
25.0? Skorpion - Uranus-Merkur
27.0? Skorpion - Jupiter-Pluto
2.0? Sch?tze - Mars-Pluto
2.5? Sch?tze - Saturn-Merkur
6.5? Sch?tze - Mond-Uranus
8.0? Sch?tze - Mars-Jupiter
12.5? Sch?tze - Saturn-Mond
20.0? Sch?tze - Mond-Uranus
21.0? Sch?tze - Pluto-Uranus
22.5? Sch?tze - Sonne-Uranus
24.5? Sch?tze - Neptun-Uranus
25.5? Sch?tze - Mond-Neptun
4.5? Steinbock - Merkur-Neptun
5.5? Steinbock - Neptun-Uranus
7.5? Steinbock - Sonne-Uranus
9.0? Steinbock - Pluto-Uranus
10.0? Steinbock - Mond-Uranus
17.5? Steinbock - Mars-Saturn
22.0? Steinbock - Mars-Jupiter
24.0? Steinbock - Venus-Saturn
27.5? Steinbock - Merkur-Saturn
3.0? Wassermann - Venus-Jupiter
5.0? Wassermann - Merkur-Uranus
7.0? Wassermann - Saturn-Mondknoten
10.0? Wassermann - Sonne-Pluto
10.5? Wassermann - Mond-Pluto
19.5? Wassermann - Venus-Pluto
20.0? Wassermann - Sonne-Pluto
23.0? Wassermann - Saturn-Mondknoten
25.0? Wassermann - Merkur-Uranus
27.0? Wassermann - Uranus-Jupiter
2.5? Fische - Saturn-Neptun
5.5? Fische - Mars-Neptun
6.0? Fische - Mars-Venus
8.0? Fische - Mars-Jupiter
12.5? Fische - Mars-Uranus
16.0? Fische - Jupiter-Uranus
20.0? Fische - Mond-Uranus
21.0? Fische - Neptun-Uranus
22.5? Fische - Sonne-Uranus
24.5? Fische - Neptun-Uranus
And here is Roscher:
WIDDER:
29 Fische ? 01 Widder: Mars/Neptun
01 ? 02: Mo/Ur, Ve/Ma
02 ? 03: Mo/Ma
03 ? 04: Mo/Ne
04 ? 05: Ma/Ur + Neptunf?rbung (Sa/Ur)
05 ? 06: Ve/Ju
06 ? 07: Ju/Pl + Ma
07 ? 08: Ve/Ne
08 ? 09: Mo/Me
09 ? 10: Ve/Mondknoten
10 ? 11: Mo/Ve
11 ? 13: Ju + Ma
13 ? 14: So/Pl
14 ? 16: Ve/Ma
16 ? 17: Pl (+Ve/Ur)
17 ? 18: Ju/Sa
18 ? 19: Ve + Ma
19 ? 20: Mo/Ve
20 ? 21: Ve/Sa
21 ? 22: So/Me
22 ? 23: Ve/Ve
23 ? 24: Me + Ma
24 ? 25: Sa/Ur
25 ? 26: Ne/Ne/Ne
26 ? 27: Ma/Pl
27 ? 28: Mo/Ju
28 ? 29: Mo/Ma
STIER
29 Widder ? 01 Stier: Ve/Ma
01 ? 02: Ma/Pl, Ve/Pl, Sa/Pl
02 ? 03: So/Ve
03 ? 04: Ve/Ve, Ve/Pl
04 ? 05: Ju/Ur + Ma
05 ? 06: So/Ju
06 ? 07: Ve/Sa + Ur
07 ? 08: Ma/Pl
08 ? 09: Ju/Ur
09 ? 10: Ve
10 ? 11: Ur/Ne
11 ? 13: Ju + Ve
13 ? 14: Ne/Pl
14 ? 16: Ve/Pl
16 ? 17: Me/Pl
17 ? 18: Mo/Pl
18 ? 19: Ve + Ve
19 ? 20: Ur/Ne
20 ? 21: Ve
21 ? 22: So/Ma
22 ? 23: Me/Pl
23 ? 24: Sa/Ur
24 ? 25: So/Ju
25 ? 26: Ma/Sa
26 ? 27: Sa/Pl, (Ur/Pl)
27 ? 28: Me/Sa/Ur
28 ? 29: Me/Ur/Ne
ZWILINGE:
29 Krebs ? 01 Zwillinge: Me/Ve
01 ? 02: Ma/Ju
02 ? 03: Sa/Ne
03 ? 04: So/Ne
04 ? 05: Ne/Ne/Ne
05 ? 06: Sa/Ur
06 ? 07: Me
07 ? 08: Ve/Ju
08 ? 09: So + Me
09 ? 10: Ve/Ne
10 ? 11: Mo/Ve
11 ? 13: Ju + Me
13 ? 14: So/Ma
14 ? 16: Me/Ju
16 ? 17: So/Pl
17 ? 18: So/Me
18 ? 19: Ve + Me
19 ? 20: Sa/Pl
20 ? 21: Me/Ma
21 ? 22: Mo/So
22 ? 23: Mo/Ju
23 ? 24: Ur/Pl, Ju/Ne
24 ? 25: Ju/Pl + Me
25 ? 26: Sa/Ur
26 ? 27: Me/Ne
27 ? 28: Ma/Sa
28 ? 29: Ne/Ne
KREBS:
29 Zwillinge ? 01 Krebs: Me/Mo
01 ? 02: Mo/Ur, Ve/Ma
02 ? 03: Mo/Ma
03 ? 04: Mo/Ne
04 ? 05: Mo/Ur + Neptunf?rbung (Sa/Ur)
05 ? 06: Ve/Ju
06 ? 07: Ju/Pl + Mo
07 ? 08: Me/Sa
08 ? 09: Mo/Me
09 ? 10: Ve/Mondknoten
10 ? 11: Mo/Ve
11 ? 13: Ju + Mo
13 ? 14: So/Pl
14 ? 16: Mo/Sa
16 ? 17: Pl (+Ve/Ur)
17 ? 18: Ju/Sa
18 ? 19: Ve + Mo
19 ? 20: Mo/Ve
20 ? 21: Ve/Sa
21 ? 22: So/Me
22 ? 23: So/Sa
23 ? 24: Me + Mo
24 ? 25: Sa/Ur
25 ? 26: Ne/Ne/Ne
26 ? 27: Mo/Pl
27 ? 28: Mo/Ju
28 ? 29: Mo/Ma
L?WE:
29 Krebs ? 01 L?we: Mo/So
01 ? 02: Ma/Pl, So/Pl, Sa/Pl
02 ? 03: So/Ve
03 ? 04: So/So, So/Pl
04 ? 05: Ju/Ur + Ma
05 ? 06: So/Ju
06 ? 07: So/Sa + Ur
07 ? 08: Mo/Ur
08 ? 09: Ju/Ur
09 ? 10: Ve
10 ? 11: Ur/Ne
11 ? 13: Ju + So
13 ? 14: Ne/Pl
14 ? 16: So/Ur
16 ? 17: Me/Pl
17 ? 18: Mo/Pl
18 ? 19: Ve + So
19 ? 20: Ur/Ne
20 ? 21: Ve
21 ? 22: So/Ma
22 ? 23: Me/Ur
23 ? 24: Sa/Ur
24 ? 25: So/Ju
25 ? 26: Ma/Sa
26 ? 27: Sa/Pl, (Ur/Pl)
27 ? 28: Me/Sa/Ur
28 ? 29: Me/Ur/Ne
JUNGFRAU:
29 L?we ? 01 Jungfrau: Me/So
01 ? 02: Ma/Ju
02 ? 03: Sa/Ne
03 ? 04: So/Ne
04 ? 05: Ne/Ne/Ne
05 ? 06: Sa/Ur
06 ? 07: Me
07 ? 08: So/Ne
08 ? 09: So + Me
09 ? 10: Ve/Ne
10 ? 11: Mo/Ve
11 ? 13: Ju + Me
13 ? 14: So/Ma
14 ? 16: Me/Ne
16 ? 17: So/Pl
17 ? 18: So/Me
18 ? 19: Ve + Me
19 ? 20: Sa/Pl
20 ? 21: Me/Ma
21 ? 22: Mo/So
22 ? 23: Ve/Ne
23 ? 24: Ur/Pl, Ju/Ne
24 ? 25: Ju/Pl + Me
25 ? 26: Sa/Ur
26 ? 27: Me/Ne
27 ? 28: Ma/Sa
28 ? 29: Ne/Ne
WAAGE:
29 Jungfrau ? 01 Waage: Me/Ve
01 ? 02: Mo/Ur, Ve/Ma
02 ? 03: Mo/Ma
03 ? 04: Mo/Ne
04 ? 05: Ve/Ur + Neptunf?rbung (Sa/Ur)
05 ? 06: Ve/Ju
06 ? 07: Ju/Pl + Ve
07 ? 08: Me/Ma
08 ? 09: Mo/Me
09 ? 10: Ve/Mondknoten
10 ? 11: Mo/Ve
11 ? 13: Ju + Ve
13 ? 14: So/Pl
14 ? 16: Ve/Ma
16 ? 17: Pl (+Ve/Ur)
17 ? 18: Ju/Sa
18 ? 19: Ve + Ve
19 ? 20: Mo/Ve
20 ? 21: Ve/Sa
21 ? 22: So/Me
22 ? 23: Ma/Pl
23 ? 24: Me + Ve
24 ? 25: Sa/Ur
25 ? 26: Ne/Ne/Ne
26 ? 27: Ve/Pl
27 ? 28: Mo/Ju
28 ? 29: Mo/Ma
SKORPION:
29 Waage ? 01 Skorpion: Ve/Pl
01 ? 02: Ma/Pl, Pl/Pl, Sa/Pl
02 ? 03: So/Ve
03 ? 04: Pl/Pl, Pl/Pl
04 ? 05: Ju/Ur + Ma
05 ? 06: So/Ju
06 ? 07: Sa/Pl + Ur
07 ? 08: Ve/Ve
08 ? 09: Ju/Ur
09 ? 10: Ve
10 ? 11: Ur/Ne
11 ? 13: Ju + Pl
13 ? 14: Ne/Pl
14 ? 16: Ve/Pl
16 ? 17: Me/Pl
17 ? 18: Mo/Pl
18 ? 19: Ve + Pl
19 ? 20: Ur/Ne
20 ? 21: Ve
21 ? 22: So/Ma
22 ? 23: Ve/Ju
23 ? 24: Sa/Ur
24 ? 25: So/Ju
25 ? 26: Ma/Sa
26 ? 27: Sa/Pl, (Ur/Pl)
27 ? 28: Me/Sa/Ur
28 ? 29: Me/Ur/Ne
SCH?TZE:
29 Skorpion ? 01 Sch?tze: Jupiter/Pluto
01 ? 02: Ma/Ju
02 ? 03: Sa/Ne
03 ? 04: So/Ne
04 ? 05: Ne/Ne/Ne
05 ? 06: Sa/Ur
06 ? 07: Me
07 ? 08: Me/Pl
08 ? 09: So + Ju
09 ? 10: Ve/Ne
10 ? 11: Mo/Ve
11 ? 13: Ju + Ju
13 ? 14: So/Ma
14 ? 16: Me/Ju
16 ? 17: So/Pl
17 ? 18: So/Me
18 ? 19: Ve + Ju
19 ? 20: Sa/Pl
20 ? 21: Me/Ma
21 ? 22: Mo/So
22 ? 23: Me/Sa
23 ? 24: Ur/Pl, Ju/Ne
24 ? 25: Ju/Pl + Ju
25 ? 26: Sa/Ur
26 ? 27: Ju/Ne (Me/Ne)
27 ? 28: Ma/Sa
28 ? 29: Ne/Ne
STEINBOCK:
29 Sch?tze ? 01 Steinbock: Ju/Sa
01 ? 02: Mo/Ur, Ve/Ma
02 ? 03: Mo/Ma
03 ? 04: Mo/Ne
04 ? 05: Sa/Ur + Neptunf?rbung (Sa/Ur)
05 ? 06: Ve/Ju
06 ? 07: Ju/Pl + Sa
07 ? 08: Mo/Ju
08 ? 09: Mo/Me
09 ? 10: Ve/Mondknoten
10 ? 11: Mo/Ve
11 ? 13: Ju + Sa
13 ? 14: So/Pl
14 ? 16: Mo/Sa
16 ? 17: Pl (+Ve/Ur)
17 ? 18: Ju/Sa
18 ? 19: Ve + Sa
19 ? 20: Mo/Ve
20 ? 21: Ve/Sa
21 ? 22: So/Me
22 ? 23: Mo/Ur
23 ? 24: Me + Sa
24 ? 25: Sa/Ur
25 ? 26: Ne/Ne/Ne
26 ? 27: Sa/Pl
27 ? 28: Mo/Ju
28 ? 29: Mo/Ma
WASSERMANN:
29 Steinbock ? 01 Wassermann: Sa/Ur
01 ? 02: Ma/Pl, Ur/Pl, Sa/Pl
02 ? 03: So/Ve
03 ? 04: Ur/Ur, Ur/Pl
04 ? 05: Ju/Ur + Ma
05 ? 06: So/Ju
06 ? 07: Sa/Ur + Ur
07 ? 08: So/Sa
08 ? 09: Ju/Ur
09 ? 10: Ve
10 ? 11: Ur/Ne
11 ? 13: Ju + Ur
13 ? 14: Ne/Pl
14 ? 16: So/Ur
16 ? 17: Me/Pl
17 ? 18: Mo/Pl
18 ? 19: Ve + Ur
19 ? 20: Ur/Ne
20 ? 21: Ve
21 ? 22: So/Ma
22 ? 23: So/Ne
23 ? 24: Sa/Ur
24 ? 25: So/Ju
25 ? 26: Ma/Sa
26 ? 27: Sa/Pl, (Ur/Pl)
27 ? 28: Me/Sa/Ur
28 ? 29: Me/Ur/Ne
FISCHE:
29 Wassermann ? 01 Fische: Ur/Ne
01 ? 02: Ma/Ju
02 ? 03: Sa/Ne
03 ? 04: So/Ne
04 ? 05: Ne/Ne/Ne
05 ? 06: Sa/Ur
06 ? 07: Me
07 ? 08: Me/Ur/
08 ? 09: So/Ne
09 ? 10: Ve/Ne
10 ? 11: Mo/Ve
11 ? 13: Ju + Ne
13 ? 14: So/Ma
14 ? 16: Me/Ne
16 ? 17: So/Pl
17 ? 18: So/Me
18 ? 19: Ve + Ne
19 ? 20: Sa/Pl
20 ? 21: Me/Ma
21 ? 22: Mo/So
22 ? 23: Me/Ma
23 ? 24: Ur/Pl, Ju/Ne
24 ? 25: Ju/Pl + Ne
25 ? 26: Sa/Ur
26 ? 27: Ne/Ne
27 ? 28: Ma/Sa
28 ? 29: Ne/Ne

Roscher is more systematic/ theoretically understandable, for in his system the degrees at a sign's end/ the beginning of the next bear the signature of both, i.e. 29 Aries - 1 Taurus is Mars-Venus, and a sign's midth also bears characteristics of the opposite sign, so 15 Cancer and 15 Capricorn are Moon-Saturn. Doebereiner found out his ones more "intuitively".
Yet, as far as I know, more than 20 different books about the degrees' characteristics do exist, e.g. Charubel or the Sabian symbols...
http://astroinfo.astrologix.de/english.htm

Critical Degrees

21
Tom,

My original teachings is where I began to look at my 29 Cap M/H and 29 Cancer I/C. As these degrees are on Angles maybe this is why I find they work so well for me. I could almost 'set my watch' as I know something will come into me at these times. They are always pleasant family experiences.

Maybe the idea is very old? I dont know.

Julie K

22
Hi Julie,

Thanks for sharing that information. If I had to bet, I'd say your angles are what are being set off when you say things happen like clockwork.

I have a problem with these little techniques like anaretic degrees, whatever the one is that says the nodal degrees are critical in every sign, etc. I learned early on in my traditional studies that an awful lot of information can be gleaned with relatively few techniques if the astrologer has the knowledge and imagination. Not all astrologers should be assigned the same techniques mind you, but neither is it necessary to pile technique upon technique in order to get information from a chart. Traditional astrologers aren't immune to this sort of thing either. I've been reading an old text that wants the astrologer to take latitude and declination into account when delineating antiscion and aspects. This might make a fine subject for some study, but to add this to every chart seems to be a bit excessive. Perhaps if we all had a single wealthy client to please and had the time to do all this it would be worthwhile.

I recall the criticism of Abu'Mashar's work on solar returns: 'If the astrologer did everything Abu Mashar listed, it would take a year to delineate the chart. I suppose if one only had to work with the King's chart, this isn't such a burden. But for the rest of us ....

Thanks again for your comments.

Tom

Too much info

23
Hey Tom,

I agree wholeheartedly!! Sometimes getting mired in too many techniques loses the broader perspective of the reading and you miss what is right in front of your face, and probably what you really need to be telling your client about!

This turned into way more than my simple question. Devore's definition was fine for me. Not the aneretic degrees.

This was just the 0 cardinals, and 6 degress to take note of, I just wondered if anyone found them to be significant is all. Just a short ah, ha, or not.

Way more than what I wanted or needed. But its all good!

Critical Degrees

24
Tom,

I dont like to call in too many techniques - simple is always best for me and I understand the chart better. I do like Solar Returns and have found them predictive but KISS works with everything for me.

As I have my Venus @ 00.58 Cancer partile semi-sextle my Leo Sun the Aries point is also very senstive for me.

Thank you for your advice.

Julie

25
Tom wrote:I've been reading an old text that wants the astrologer to take latitude and declination into account when delineating antiscion and aspects.
Tom
Hello again Tom.
Just to say that in CieloeTerra they consider planets' latitude and declination for every chart.
But why do you think it takes so much time? Solar Fire can calculate parallels and latitude.
And to be honest they consider things more difficult to calculate than this, believe me ;)

26
But why do you think it takes so much time? Solar Fire can calculate parallels and latitude.
Hi,

Yes they can calculate, and pinpoint the location, but then the astrologer needs to determine if those positions affect the positions in longitude and if so by how much and from that make a determination as to the strength of the aspect or determine if any aspect exists at all. All of this makes a great deal of sense in theory, but even the astrologers who claimed this was the right way to do it, never bothered with it. They just used longitude.

I'm reading Morin's Book 16 and the translator noted the same thing. Morin goes into excruciating detail about how to determine the strength of an aspect by using precise locations of the planets, but he ignores this in his examples.

My point is not that declination and/or latitude play no role in determining the efficiency of an aspect. It is only that no one really has worked with them and it might be worth looking at. Volunteers?

Tom

27
I worked with great circle distance aspects (taking into account celestial longitude and latitude) for several years, though not in any systematic way. I did not perceive any improvement wrt event timing over longitudinal aspects. Placidus mundane aspects on the other hand do seem to provide more accurate timing, this conclusion is not based on any systematic approach.

- Ed