Are you ready for a threesome?

Yes, I thought some of you might find this one interesting. I wonder why?

A male born 1967 with Sun Leo, Moon Leo has a question regarding his capsizing relationship to a woman born 1977 with Sun Scorpio and Moon Sagittarius. The woman is in the process of breaking out of the relationship. She has said that she has no more feelings for him, but she has suggested that they possibly could invite a third party into bed with them. His question is what to do, whether he should continue to support her and move forward with her needs and proposal, or whether he should drop his efforts to mantain the relationship and let it go?

I have no information on whether the woman wished to invite a male or female friend into their bedroom activities. The first thought might be that this sort of arrangement could be more attractive to a man than a woman, but not neccessarily so. The gentleman, who has both Sun and Moon in Leo, might be sensual and fun-loving but then the more conventional and steadyfast of the two. The woman who has Sun Scorpio and Moon Sagittarius appears to be more restless and experimental, feeling the need to challange her boundaries and sense of security. Her Moon moves towards Neptune and I sense that her need for emotional freedom might make her vulnerable or get her into a muddle on occasion.
The question is asked on the Day of Mars and in the Hour of the Moon. Mars and the Moon are not natural friends and the combinations shows controversy, a possible risk or infection. The Moon has the same powers as the lady of the ascendant, Venus, ie. they are both moderate and moist, and besides both planets are in the same sign (and triplicity) so the chart is radical and fit to be judged. 1) When the lady of the hour shares the same powers as the the lady of the ascendant, then the lady of the ascendant recognizes the lady of the hour and gives her consent to go ahead and manage the chart and act as a prime significator. The Moon as a prime significator shows change, fluctations and matters of security. 2) When the lady of the hour is in the same triplicity as the lady of the ascendant (although they are actually in the same sign here) things tend to get shared around. That makes interesting sense here - because the woman is actually suggesting bringing a friend into their private life.

Venus, ruler of the ascendant and significator of the querent, is in its own sign Libra in the 12th house. Mars, lord of the 7th and significator of his spouse (the more sexually and emotionally demanding) is also in Libra in the 12th. The significators are applying to each other, and Mercury, Lord of the 11th, a third part, will translate Venus to Mars - and make it go quicker. But the planets are in the 12th house. This relationship is in deep water and the two should be asking whether they are looking for the same things, or whether the solution to the problem is barely (hardly) accessable. When the question is regarding a relationship and the significators are cadent, the situation can be compared to playing with a beachball on the beach. If the one and same person has to go wading out into the water and fetch the ball every time something goes wrong, the game will soon go sour and the relationship will costs more than it tastes.

The Moon, who is lady of the hour, and both secondary and prime significator in the question, is 11Libra in the 12th house and conjunct Vindemiatrix. This shows 'a table that is missing a leg' or a fatal relationship, a relationship where both parts are not participating on equal terms. The Moon in the 12th is a warning that the querent might find his spouses requests difficult or inappropriate. The Moon applies by a sinister square to Jupiter intercepted in Capricorn in the 3rd house. The sinister aspect is like a risk and a gamble, a long shot at goal, you don't actually know whether the ball will go in - or it ends you up in the sticks, or even worse, picking the shattered pieces of a nearby greenhouse. Jupiter is in his fall, and in the detriment of the Moon, intercepted and cadent. No pleasure here. Considering that Jupiter is the lord of the Pisces 5th, within which sign and house we also find Uranus, I judged that the suggestion of bringing and additional player into the partnership's bedroom was both inappropriate, represented instability and additional trouble, and was nothing that would bring the querent joy or pleasure.

My advice to the querent was therefor that he should put his foot down as a matter of principle and not let himself be deluded to entertaining an option that might not be correct according to his personal standards and need.

Goodness Andrew - was that a serious question???

I'm mainly surprised that people seem to know themselves so very little, and instead ask an astrologer, who valiantly makes the best out of the situation (like you have) to give them the answer they probably already knew, if they only listened to their inner guidance.

We humans really sometimes are a bunch of nuts, so quick to give away our power

You've done a really good job at this horary BTW


Susie

And this is the reason everyone should move to a Scandinavian country!

I'll look at the chart, too.

GH

Actually I'm not certain I agree here,(about consulting someone) because it seems to me that it is odd for a woman to wave a menage' in a mans face when she has stated she wishes to break off a relationship? that seems like a bit of a trap somehow? I'm not certain why, I can actually see a man saying wait, is this too good to be true or what? asking for second opinion.

of course the first thing that hit me in the chart is that the asc is aligned with Spica and Arcturus, I thought interesting, stars of wealth and fame. but also Spica is in the virgins hand, the sheaf of wheat yes?

from anne wright :http://www.constellationsofwords.com/st ... _order.htm

A still more widely spread native Arabian name for Spika was Al Simak al A'zal, "the Defenceless", "or Unarmed", Simak, i. e. unattended by any near-by star; the other Simak, Arcturus, being armed with a lance, or staff, represented by adjacent stars of Bootes. This star marked the Arabic 12th manzil, Al Simak or Al Zimach (related to the Hebrew word Tsemech), and in early astrology was, like all of Virgo, a sign of unfruitfulness and a portent of injustice to innocence; but later on, of eminence, renown, and riches.


it does seem that the last lines are in keeping with rest of the horary.

G

I think this chart is best assessed based on possible Almutens and Exaltations:

1)The duality or multiplicity: Venus and Mars are all in movable signs so is the 1/7 axis BUT, the Saturn exalts in 1st and Sun in 7th, they are both in dual sign- no points for guessing the sign - Virgo !! and applyiing to a conjunction !-no points for guessing what happens there either

2)Jupiter the 5th lord is in fall and retrograde and retrogradely applying to Trine of Sun and Saturn.

I think it will happen,could be a girl from the Tavern .Don't tell anyone


PD

Addnl: Third party is the Jupiter- I am not on very strong grounds saying that that person could be a girl.

Yes, I thought some of you might find this one interesting. I wonder why?

Interesting indeed Actually, what a cute little chart! It's symbolism is so obvious: Venus (the querent) dignified shows his purity and good intentions, Mars in its detriment and in the 12th house of secrets and "undermining" shows her feeble (and by no means self-confident) attempts to "save" the relationship by means of the third party which is shown by Mercury "sandwiched" between the two. A younger person? If anything, the chart shows that the third party is not just a fancy in her mind but a real person, someone she's thinking of, probably having romantic contacts with him already. Since Mercury hurries towards Mars (the woman) and will conjunct it before Venus (the querent) catches up with Mars, their further contacts seem inevitable - but will probably remain hidden (12th house). In any event, I miss any "mutability" in this chart which would suggest that a "threesome" would be viable, and also because Venus is the strongest planet and because Moon first applies to a retrograde planet I'd suggest he stays firm and doesn't move on with her needs and proposal. That's why I think that you Andrew gave him the best advice that he could receive right now As for the rest, I'd consult their synastry to see if there's any sense in further attempting to save the relationship by some other means.

Just want to back up Granny's point about Spica on the ascendant.

While its generally a very fortunate star the one exception is in regards marriage and relationships.

''Has a reputation of being unfruitful or unfortunate for marriage, but otherwise considered one of the most fortunate stars''
(Deborah Houlding)

I am experimenting with the Greek monomoiria (planetary degree rulers) utilised by Valens and Paulus. See if these are useful or not: Ascendant is on the degree (monomoiria) of Saturn. 7th House cusp on the monomoiria degree of Mercury. Mercury on degree of Mars , Saturn on the degree of Mars, Venus on degree of Saturn. Mars on the degree of Mercury. Jupiter on the degree of Mercury. Moon on the degree of Venus. Sun on the degree of Jupiter, Uranus on the degree of Jupiter.

As this topic is Ema's specialist subject area I will let her do the commentary

As this topic is Ema's specialist subject area I will let her do the commentary

Hi MarkC, thanks for reminding me I have been preparing myself to post a commentary on monomoiria on the thread you have started - and it's a very interesting subject indeed and thanks for having started it, but I'm postponing my post because i feel it would take me some more time, and I just happen to be very busy these days... I've been experimenting with the technique in horary and the 2nd part of my essay for Olivia (which was not published in AA Journal nor anywhere else) was all about MM in horary astrology. I actually went through all of her charts in her book and made some interesting discoveries about the possible application of MM to horary, but unfortunately I can't find that essay in my computer (it was written in 1993 or 1995 I can't quite remember) so I have to find it in my files and transcribe it by hand. I'll do that I promise just give me some time... It also takes me more time to write anything because English is not my native language - but I do want to give the impression that it is I must first tell you that I don't regard myself an expert on MM, not at all. I have ceased to research MM long ago - but just because I'm too busy (or to lazy? I don't know...) and not because I wouldn't find it worthwhile! But let's see! Saturn ruling the asc. degree AND Venus (asc. ruler) on the same Saturn degree (by MM) might suggest that the querent is thinking about something sad, like terminating the relationship, (Saturn also rules the 4th house of ending and the "grave") while Mercury ruling the desc. by MM AND Mars, the woman's ruler, also on Mercury degree, suggests that the woman is inquisitive, curious and interested in the sphere of life that Mercury rules - here the 11th cusp, turned 5th - her love affair! She seems to be even more involved with Mercury than the chart in general suggests - and maybe she herself has a more "mercurial" character - maybe asc. in Gemini? Now, Mercury is on the degree of Mars and Mars on the degree of Mercury - a mutual reception my MM!!! How nice, that shows a strong connection I wouldn't involve other planets because they're not significators in the question. On the whole, the use of MM here would, in the very least, accentuate the relationship between the woman and the third party. She could be deeper into that other relationship than she confesses. I wouldn't dare say more. I think the outcome of the chart must be judged by other, generally accepted rules of interpretation. But don't you agree (and thanks for finding those MM rulers!) that those "tiny" rulerships are TELLING? As for Spica ... I don't usually use fixed stars in charts which are not connected with politics or other mundane events.