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Is my husband having an affair?
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 523

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject: Is my husband having an affair? Reply with quote

First, the background:
A friend of mine found an IM thread between her husband and another woman which has upset her tremendously. She had previously suspected some form of a relationship between the two since she had found a couple of text messages from the other woman on her husband's cell phone. The other woman is in another country. She was also aware that her husband had previously been very close friends with this other woman before they got married, and he had even confessed to his wife that this other woman had been "attracted" to him. But she had no proof and let the matter go.

However, the other day, she accidentally ran into an IM thread which had very suggestive remarks of a possibly ongoing relationship between the two - e.g. they were saying things like "can't wait to talk to you again tomorrow", referring to each other as "darling", the woman made reference about how difficult it must be for him to keep her "hidden", and the husband made reference to "wish i was there" when she mentioned that she had undressed for bed.

My friend confronted her husband, who admitted that he was still close friends with this other woman, but insisted that nothing was going on between them, it was just "verbal flirtation", that he was committed to the wife. My friend has trouble believing this, in the light of the IM messages.

Question asked July 31st, 10:37 AM, Manhattan, NY; 3 deg 51 minutes Libra rising. The planetary ruler is Venus, so the chart is radical.

"What is going on between my husband and her?" was the question.

The problem that I am having with this chart is the placement of the significators (among other things).

She is the first, signified by Venus and the Moon. He is the 7th, signified by Mars. But if he is Mars, then wouldn't the other woman be Venus, and the wife the Moon?

On the other hand, she could be the 1st (Venus), he is Mars (7th), and the other woman could be the 5th from his 7th, which would be the Sun (ruler of the radical 11th)

Taking a look at the first scenario (if she is Venus), then Venus is placed in his 5th (makes sense), he is in the other woman's 12th (indicating he is her secret, she is hiding him from the world) and peregrine (he is not in good shape), and the Moon (wife) is void of course - doesn't know what to do, drifting, looking for an answer and the truth, and separating from a trine from Uranus - sudden, unexpected trauma, very descriptive. Also, there is mutual reception between Venus and Mars, indicating that her husband and the other woman are definitely interested in each other.

On the other hand, if the other woman is the 5th, then Sun is positioned on the cusp of her husband's 5th, indicating her romantic interest in the man. Mercury (messages) is combust the Sun, which is the IM messages that that were discovered in the partner's 5th, so that fits in as well. However, there is no mutual reception between the Sun and Mars. But how could that be, in the light of the content of the IM messages?

There is no aspect between either Mars and Venus, or Mars and the Sun, so either way, the relationship will not develop further.

But I am confused as to which ruler I should give to the other woman, and which one to the wife. I read on Deb's forum that the Sun is sometimes given to the man (which would make sense, since the Sun is conjunct the husband's 5th, he's into this "romance" thing; and Venus to sweethearts (then she would be the 1st), and the Moon to wives. This also seems to fit into the picture....

Furthermore, is the husband telling the truth when he says there was and is nothing going on between those two except verbal flirtation? Is there any indication of a relationship that WAS?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
- Taurus 7 -
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yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI, Taurus

Before I get into the subject, if you allow me my ramblings...

There is always an ethical side in third person horaries that I am not confortable with. I always reject this kind of questions, unless it is clearly in the best interest of the other person. For example I always reject questions like "will they break up ?", "will my daughter ', "is he gay?"

Sorry, not of your business.

Questions about "is he betraying me ?" are more of a gray area, but they have problems of their own. In this particular case, I would STRONGLY advise you to NOT answer either yes or no to your friend ! You can only be right or wrong, and in general you don´t want to be sucked into the vortice of a possible divorce ! Just say you couldn´t undertand the chart, it happens.

After unsolicited advice...

The problem of the third wheel is often asked around, if you look in the forum, you will find other examples. First house is always querent, 7th is always quesited (in this case, husband).

And lover ? First we have to think that it is a possible lover, we don´t know for sure that they are lovers. 5th from 7th makes sense to me, I have seen this idea works, but any planet which is "doing something suspect" will work.

Venus is her ruler, in Leo. As Sun is dispositor of venus, is a good suspect for the lover.

But it worries me that mars is in the 12th house, and in virgo, the house of the enemies of venus. This doesn´t mean that he doesn´t love her, but in my experience he probably resents her for something.

I think they have a really serious problem of communication.
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 523

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is always an ethical side in third person horaries that I am not confortable with. I always reject this kind of questions, unless it is clearly in the best interest of the other person.

I see your point. Maybe it would be prudent not to answer this question due to the ramifications. But this horary interests me in terms of what it is saying, so I would study it for my own edification, and thereby interested in responses.


Quote:
The problem of the third wheel is often asked around, if you look in the forum, you will find other examples. First house is always querent, 7th is always quesited (in this case, husband).

OK.

Quote:
Venus is her ruler, in Leo. As Sun is dispositor of venus, is a good suspect for the lover.

So you're saying that she is Venus, and the other woman is signified by the Sun. But I don't understand the relationship between Sun and Venus in terms of Venus being "disposited" by the Sun?

Quote:
But it worries me that mars is in the 12th house, and in virgo, the house of the enemies of venus. This doesn´t mean that he doesn´t love her, but in my experience he probably resents her for something.

I think they have a really serious problem of communication.

Do you mean the husband resents the querent?

On another note, do you see any indication of any prior or existing relationship between Sun and Mars (agreeing with you that the other woman is the Sun). I don't see anything, but the IM messages were pretty explosive, so it confuses me.....Thanks.
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yuzuru



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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But I don't understand the relationship between Sun and Venus in terms of Venus being "disposited" by the Sun?


As Dr. H says, the dispositor is "the cause and consequence of the planet". It is what is in his mind, what has power over it.

Quote:
On another note, do you see any indication of any prior or existing relationship between Sun and Mars (agreeing with you that the other woman is the Sun)


No. But there is a conj. between Sun and mercury. As Mars is an mercury sign (virgo), I would think that the communications with this woman weren´t so innocent.

But don´t take me too seriously because I didn´t look too deep into this chart.
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 523

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As Dr. H says, the dispositor is "the cause and consequence of the planet". It is what is in his mind, what has power over it.


Wow! I didn't know that. That's very interesting.

Quote:
On another note, do you see any indication of any prior or existing relationship between Sun and Mars (agreeing with you that the other woman is the Sun)

Quote:
No. But there is a conj. between Sun and mercury. As Mars is an mercury sign (virgo), I would think that the communications with this woman weren´t so innocent.

Interesting...thank you so much for your insight.
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bkhardeep



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi,
here are rules for love affairs as per kp horary system-

1- if sub lord of 5th cusp signiy 5 or 11 then person will have affairs.
will my husband have affair ?
to know it, look at the 7th cusp sub lord. if it signify 11, then he have affairs.

if it is connected with 11-1-5 houses then opposite sex take initiative, if it is connected with 7-5-11 then your husband took interest.

if sub lord of 5th is linked with 7-11-2 and also to the mars and saturn then he will face disrespect, agony, querrels etc.

regasrds
hs nagi
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kannan



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 97

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Bkhardeep

KP horary is built on Sidereal system and Stellar , whereas the discussion here on the subject is based on Tropical chart. To apply the rules of KP on any question ,I think, we should draw first a Sidereal chart then analyse the matter. Then it will be a good comparison as to which system yields better results

Cheers

Kannan
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bkhardeep



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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dear kannan,

i just shared the rules used in kp for this type of questions. i didnt give my analyses.
now i am giving it.
as per time chart made by you in my system, asc rising is 3-37 rising in libra. that is governed by venus sign-mars star and venus sub.

11 th house is 5th ( love affair ) from 7th ( her husband). to know whether her husband has affairs, his 5th house should have strong connection with 11th e.i. 5th of the chart.

in the chart 11 lord is sun. sun is deposited in 10, that is 12th to 11th, it negates the affairs.

as per kp- 11th sub lord should signify 5th house strongly to have love affairs. in the chart 11th cusp falls at 11-52 leo, under sun sign-ketu star and mercury sub. so sub lord of 11th is mercury.

now checking mercury
mercury is in its own star ( as per kp a planet is a strong significator of that house where its star lord is occupied ). being placed in its own star mercury is posited in 10th house, 10 th is 12th to 11th . love affairs of husband.

so the lady's husband dont have any love affair.

regards
hs nagi
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kannan



Joined: 15 Mar 2008
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Bkhardeep. Good analysis and interpretation. Let us see what others have to say in this matter

Regards

Kannan
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Ema



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, my view of the situation is: her prime ruler is Saturn (asc. almuten), corulers Venus and the Moon. His prime ruler is the Sun (desc. almuten) and coruler is Mars. Saturn on 12th cusp: she feels »stuck«, as in a jail, unable to do anything. Quite understandable! Venus is in a close opposition with Neptune – she is also utterly confused so this quite aptly describes her feelings; and she is in the 11th house which is her husband's 5th of love affairs, so her position quite properly indicates where lies her interest – in the (possible) love affair of her husband. The Sun (her husband) is on cusp of that house, conj. Mercury ruler of rx 9th (of foreign countries) and turned 3rd – his writing. Mercury obviously shows this other woman (from another country) with whom he is in contact through writing (his 3rd house). Since Mercury is combust, the relationship is hidden, which is confirmed by Mars in her 12th - he's doing something behind her back. Now what happens? The key to the answer lies in the fact that Mercury is separating from conjunction and will shortly »escape« the Sun which indicates that their communication will gradually stop, or relationship (that is, with the suspected "lover")disintegrate. Besides, the Sun is dignified which indicates that he is not lying to her and that his »love affair« is only in writing. This gives hope to the querent, although the situation, on the whole, is not optimistic. The significators of the main parties (the querent and her husband) are not applying to any aspect and there's also no mutual reception to mitigate this loss of contact. What is more, the Moon is void and nearing combustion, showing that her miserable state will continue. To have or not to have an affair is even not the main problem; it is the trust into him which has obviously been lost, and the chart doesn't show that it could be regained, at least not shortly. Due to the void Moon, this situation will probably remain without a proper »resolution«, but personally, I would advise her to get away from him, at least for a while, and think whether they are truly compatible, and to see whether and how he'd try to make it up. She has to let him know how he has dissapointed her by such conduct, and how miserable she feels. If she doesn't do that, he'll do it again. Such is the nature of us mortal souls, pardon, bodies Wink I mean, men usually think they don't "sin" as long as they don't really sleep with another woman, but we women are different. So, it's really a question of values, and stance, and proper communication:-)
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bkhardeep



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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi ema,

congrats for wonderful analyses.
Smile

regards
hs nagi
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Ema



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi nagi, seems like we have arrived at the same answer by employing different methods. nice :-) speaking of which, I don't know nothing of djotish (if this is the system you use?)... I take Mercury and the Sun as belonging strongly to the 11th because they are on cusp of that house... regio or placidus or perhaps some other... anyway, would be nice if taurus would keep us posted on that matter, right? best wishes :-)
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ema and Bkhardeep,
Thanks to both for your amazing analysis - although I dare say I had to read Bkhardeep's analysis several times over to get a better understanding for it.

Quote:
This gives hope to the querent, although the situation, on the whole, is not optimistic. The significators of the main parties (the querent and her husband) are not applying to any aspect and there's also no mutual reception to mitigate this loss of contact. What is more, the Moon is void and nearing combustion, showing that her miserable state will continue.
.

My friend, as you know, confronted her husband. She told me that her husband sent an email to this woman breaking off all contact with her. My friend insisted on seeing the email. It was a one liner, very abrupt.

Quote:
To have or not to have an affair is even not the main problem; it is the trust into him which has obviously been lost, and the chart doesn't show that it could be regained, at least not shortly

Exactly. The doubts linger on in her mind. She told me that she is confused how her husband and this woman - who, as per her husband's own admission, were very close friends, for almost a year, and in regular IM contact over the last 7 months or so while she was at work - could so easily break off contact via a one-liner and that should be the end of it. She continues to question her husband if the other woman contacted him again, or if he contacted her to explain why he had to kill the contact so abruptly and in a cruel fashion. He continues to deny that any subsequent contact has occured, but I know my friend can't get it out of her head.

Quote:
Due to the void Moon, this situation will probably remain without a proper »resolution«, but personally, I would advise her to get away from him, at least for a while, and think whether they are truly compatible, and to see whether and how he'd try to make it up.

I believe he is doing everything he can to try to make it up to her. He has deleted the other woman from all of his contact lists.

Quote:
Such is the nature of us mortal souls, pardon, bodies I mean, men usually think they don't "sin" as long as they don't really sleep with another woman, but we women are different. So, it's really a question of values, and stance, and proper communication:-)

Agreed, I think your analysis is spot-on. My friend mentioned to me that what happened has made her question her identity and her sense of self-worth. They have had a "challenging" relationship ever since they got married, and in retrospect, she thinks that the difficulties that she has experienced with him all fall into place when placed into context with the fact that he was getting his "solace" from the other woman, practically from the day that they got married. She says that he never gave the marriage a chance, because he was running to the other woman for comfort - albeit - via e-mail. She thinks that the difficult stance that he took with her over the past few months was a ramification of the guilt that he felt for what he was doing behind her back. The trust factor has been severely damaged.
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yuzuru



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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The significators of the main parties (the querent and her husband) are not applying to any aspect and there's also no mutual reception to mitigate this loss of contact.


I don´t agree in this point. Querent and husband are already married. We don´t need an applying aspect. Even a separating aspect wouldn´t be a testimony of divorce or separation ! Unhappily or not, it´s common that in married couples, even the happy ones, you will not find strong mutual reception. Reception by triplicity, term or decan is usually the most you will find. You may love your husband, but you are not "head over heels" for him.

Quote:
nd in retrospect, she thinks that the difficulties that she has experienced with him all fall into place when placed into context with the fact that he was getting his "solace" from the other woman, practically from the day that they got married. She says that he never gave the marriage a chance,


I don´t know how to say this in an easy way in english, sorry if I seem blunt, but: women are paranoid ! All of the women I know at least. Friends, enemies, inteligent and not so much, all the women I know are a little paranoid. I have friends who can invent to themselves long and complex histories of why their boyfriends say that they love them, but in reality hates her. So, I am worried with the "it all makes sense now". Hindsight is 20/20, but sometimes is also blind with emotion.

Quote:
To have or not to have an affair is even not the main problem; it is the trust into him which has obviously been lost,


I don´t know if this comment will be welcomed or not, but I tought that maybe a litlte "masculine opinion" would be necessary here... if I was the husband, I would probably divorce your friend if she started trying to control who I am allowed to talk or don´t. To me, at least, seens extremely disrespectull and distrustfull. So, I want to remember that we are not inside the situation and don´t know how is their real dynamic.

Sorry if the comments were unsolicited, but it worries me. As I said before, "peeking" in the situation with astrology can be a bee nest. It is too easy to get to false conclusions based on an horary chart.
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Ema



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So tell me, Taurus7, does this guy have his Moon in Gemini, or Venus, or both? If none of this, he probably has a difficult aspect beteween his Moon and Venus. Really curious about that!

Quote:
I don´t agree in this point. Querent and husband are already married. We don´t need an applying aspect.

Yuzuru, sure they are, married. But the question is not about their marriage. It's about his possible love affair which implies how this situation will affect them. If we saw an appyling aspect or mutual reception between their significators, this would mean that they can make it up, like getting back to each other in a nice way, feeling good about each other again, falling in love again, things like that. It's of no consequence whether they are married or not. It could also happen to them if they weren't married, right?
Taurus's explanation that they've had a rocky relationship since their marriage confirms my view. Even if he does break with the girl, they can't really make it up, because there's obviously a deeper problem between them, a problem which synastry would surely reveal.

Quote:
Even a separating aspect wouldn´t be a testimony of divorce or separation !

Surely not. To say this would mean that we don't know the basics of our art Surprised Separating aspects don't show the future, they show the past.
The chart, as I see it, doesn't show their separation, only continuous problems, although - in view of the fact that the question was asked a day before solar eclipse - I think it will happen in the long run.

Quote:
don´t know how to say this in an easy way in english, sorry if I seem blunt, but: women are paranoid ! All of the women I know at least. Friends, enemies, inteligent and not so much, all the women I know are a little paranoid.


Didn't you read that his mails were obviously flirtatious, and that the woman was hurt? In a relationship, it doesn't count what a man thinks of a woman and her behaviour, and it doesn't even count what he thinks about his own behaviour, but only what each of them is doing to the other. Each of them must get into the other's skin, understand and act accordingly - if they want their relationship to succeed. We astrologers can of course see whether that's at all possible... I mean, how can someone with Venus in Scorpio understand another with Venus in Aquarius, for example Confused [/list]
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