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House-Buying Question

 
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Leo-Poet



Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 142

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: House-Buying Question Reply with quote

Hello:

It’s been a while since I have posted anything, but I have a horary that’s driving me crazy, and I would appreciate some input. It’s a “will I buy this house?” question.

Some Background

Two years ago, I got a full-time job that requires me to live in a different city several hundred miles away from my life partner for most of the year. I spend summers and vacations with my partner. I have been renting a house in my work location, but I am tired of the rental and would like something a little more upscale. I began looking at houses in June. There was a beautiful house that came on the market, but it quickly received an offer from another buyer and went under contract. Nevertheless, I cast a chart asking if I would end up buying the property. When I first put up the chart, I thought the initial offer would fall through because of the condition of the ninth house (seller’s contracts). L9-Mercury is retrograde and combust. That offer did fall through about three weeks later and the house went back on the market.

Since then, I have been talking with an agent about the possibility of buying it. I also got preapproved for a mortgage on it, but I have not yet made an official offer. I could use my own resources to buy the house, but my mortgage payment would a bit high. My partner may want to help me with a down payment gift, but he remains hesitant. We’ve had numerous conversations about the possibility of buying this house. My partner keeps coming up with reasons for me not to proceed—but then he continues to bring up the idea of helping me buy it. I am getting sick of these conversations.

I have three possible courses of action: (1) make an offer using my own resources; (2) wait until my partner feels comfortable giving me the down payment gift and then make an offer; (3) forget about the whole thing and continue renting.

Does the chart show that I will end up buying the property? There are some positives. My sig, Venus, is dignified by domicile. The horary moon in is mutual reception with both Venus and Jupiter, showing the possibility of aid in the resolution of the matter. Mars, almuten of the fourth house, is conjunct the ascendant. The horary moon translates L4-Saturn to L1-Venus.
On the other hand, the house is represented by co-almutens Mars and Saturn, both malefics. This suggests to me that the house may have problems and be a source of aggravation to me. Also, the moon’s final aspect is a square to Mercury Rx, which shows that negotiations won’t work out despite lots of effort and stress. What do others think?

June 17, 2014
Jacksonville, FL USA
2:46:10pm EDT
30°N19'55''
081°W39'21''



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wca



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 15
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a lot I would want to call attention to in this chart.

your significator is in domicile (Taurus), but out of sect and in the 8th house. you're putting yourself in a situation you wouldn't typically put yourself into (sect consideration) that's causing a tremendous amount of concern and worry (8th house).

Mars is in detriment on the Ascendant. you're rushing things, pushing forward for a solution too quickly and missing important details. malefics on angles nearly guarantee that you're going to find yourself in a situation fraught with difficulties and, in the case of this chart (where Uranus is on the descendant), arguments and quarrels with your partner.

home is signified by Saturn in Scorpio in your second house, retrograde, with Pluto right on the IC. I have tremendous concerns about the integrity of this home. Saturn retrograde in your second shows this property to be a literal drain on your resources, a money pit, as structural problem after problem come to light. with Pluto there's likely an issue with plumbing/sewage, coupled with Saturn as its significator in Scorpio.

I don't see Venus coming to Scorpio (they've recently separated via opposition, with Saturn in Venus's detriment). no planet is translating light, and no planet is collecting. Venus is applying to Jupiter, ruler of 3rd and 6th.. you'd have to put that in context for me, potentially you attempting to draw up contracts of some kind. Moon is not applying to anyone presently, which makes me wonder if the impetus to get this new home will just fall out and the matter will close itself with no real change or update.

if this chart came to me, I'd say it doesn't look the client would be getting the house, and thank god. what a mess that place appears to be.
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Leo-Poet



Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 142

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, WCA.

Thanks for your input. The moon moves from a trine with Saturn to a sextile with Venus, so there is a planet linking Saturn and Venus. But I certainly appreciate that someone might read that differently. I realize that these two are separating, but I took that as a description of the fact that the house was actually under contract when I asked the question. Now it is not under contract. It is my understanding that the previous buyers could not secure financing. The first contract did not fail because of anything known to be wrong with the house.

As I mentioned in my original post, I also have concerns about Mars and Saturn in the chart. Certainly, Saturn in the second has got me wondering. The house is made of stone, so Saturn as sig is not inappropriate. I have wondered if the second house position indicates the financial strain of buying the house, or if this position should be generalized to the financial strain of owning it.

The applying sextile between Venus and Jupiter (L1-L6) could represent that one reason I want to buy a house is that I would like to have all my pets with me. My current landlord allows some animals but not others.

Thanks again.
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wca



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo-Poet wrote:
Hi, WCA.

Thanks for your input. The moon moves from a trine with Saturn to a sextile with Venus, so there is a planet linking Saturn and Venus. But I certainly appreciate that someone might read that differently.


Moon has separated from Saturn by about 13º, and 7º separated from her square to Venus. she won't reach Venus by sextile for another 23º. personally I'd consider these to be wildly out of orb, and would not admit the Moon to be connecting Saturn and Venus.

Leo-Poet wrote:
I realize that these two are separating, but I took that as a description of the fact that the house was actually under contract when I asked the question. Now it is not under contract. It is my understanding that the previous buyers could not secure financing. The first contract did not fail because of anything known to be wrong with the house.


you asked if you should buy the house on Myers, so the chart will answer this for you regardless of contractual status. as in all horaries, we want to see primary significators brought together. here they are separating and not being brought together by a third, which is a strong negative testimony.

Leo-Poet wrote:
As I mentioned in my original post, I also have concerns about Mars and Saturn in the chart. Certainly, Saturn in the second has got me wondering. The house is made of stone, so Saturn as sig is not inappropriate.


Saturn is also in a water sign, not ideal for purchasing property though that doesn't have to be the primary consideration here.

Leo-Poet wrote:
I have wondered if the second house position indicates the financial strain of buying the house, or if this position should be generalized to the financial strain of owning it.


I don't see why it can't be both, but I imagine its most immediate implication is "you can't afford this." but I only say it goes to that extreme because L2 is in detriment and opposing Uranus from the Asc.

Leo-Poet wrote:
The applying sextile between Venus and Jupiter (L1-L6) could represent that one reason I want to buy a house is that I would like to have all my pets with me. My current landlord allows some animals but not others.


certainly possible, but I'm inclined the chart would make that point another way (like Moon on 6th cusp, or ruling 6th, or your significator in 6th, etc.). applying aspects tend to give us insight on what's going to happen.

I should have done a better job of directly replying to your points before, but I was responding on a mobile and found it too difficult to reply to points directly. I'll do so here.

Leo-Poet wrote:
Does the chart show that I will end up buying the property?


I don't see any indications of successful acquisition.

Leo-Poet wrote:
There are some positives. My sig, Venus, is dignified by domicile.


true, and this certainly argues that you are "in your element." Venus's partile sextile to Jupiter is also heartening. but we have to take into consideration Venus's rulership over the malefic 8th house and her placement there, and her separating opposition to Saturn (ruler of the quesited) to get a well-rounded picture of her situation. these things can't exist in a vacuum.

Leo-Poet wrote:
The horary moon in is mutual reception with both Venus and Jupiter, showing the possibility of aid in the resolution of the matter.


there can't be reception without aspect. the Moon is 20º+ away from Venus and Jupiter both, and makes no traditional aspect to them. what we have instead is generosity, a situation in which planets are casually supportive of one another. planets in generosity don't go out of their way to assist, but the relationship is one of "moral support."

Leo-Poet wrote:
Mars, almuten of the fourth house, is conjunct the ascendant.


I don't see the virtue of pointing toward Mars as a positive indication of anything here. he's in detriment and in opposition to Uranus, and has more to say about the state of your finances and what kinds of responses you'll get for pursuing this property than the property itself. Mars in Libra is wicked, the "thug," and due to his accidental strength on the Ascendant he is well positioned to bring harm. arguments, fighting, rows between you and your partner (notice Mars rules the 7th, with Uranus sitting on his Ascendant). tread lightly or not at all.

Leo-Poet wrote:
The horary moon translates L4-Saturn to L1-Venus.


as discussed above, she does not. translation requires a speedier planet separating from a weighty planet, and before the speedy planet is fully separated from the first applies to a second. traditional considerations, then, require the translating planet to be within orb of two planets simultaneously.

this is a critical point because translation is an act of conferring influence from one to another, through the use of an intermediary. we need to see who the Moon is receiving influence from and where she is next directing it. for instance, if the Moon was translating from your significator to the quesited's, this is an argument that you will obtain your desire with a little effort and diligence from you, and a third party will be of some assistance in helping you get what you want. but if the Moon was translating light from the quesited's significator to yours, this is reversed -- it's as if a third party is delivering your desires to your doorstep, and will require very little work from you. always it is better, with application and with translation, to see quesited's significator coming to the querent's. in this chart, the Moon is separating from both Saturn (out of orb) and Venus (still within orb), and not yet applying to anyone. there is no translation.

Leo-Poet wrote:
On the other hand, the house is represented by co-almutens Mars and Saturn, both malefics.


Saturn first. primary significators always first. if you want to look at the almuten that's fine (and may even be advised in some cases), but needs to be second to the primary ruler of that house.

Leo-Poet wrote:
This suggests to me that the house may have problems and be a source of aggravation to me.


yes. Saturn rules, in a watery sign (the sign of another malefic who himself is in detriment), retrograde and in your 2nd house -- nothing but one misfortune begetting another. all to the ruin of your own financial peace and independence.

Leo-Poet wrote:
Also, the moon’s final aspect is a square to Mercury Rx, which shows that negotiations won’t work out despite lots of effort and stress. What do others think?


responding to this properly would take up way too much space on this thread and throw us in an entirely different direction. I am just going to advise you to do a little more research on the classical use of aspects. it appears to me that you're simply noting all the aspects that the Moon will make her in current sign, when what's really important are planets she's most recently contacted and who she will next aspect regardless of sign boundaries.

the last aspect the Moon made was a trine to retrograde and combust Mercury (which you accurately delineated as contracts and negotiations falling out and the house being re-listed), and she doesn't apply to anyone directly and is traveling into the void. she isn't void herself, as that would indicate that she's empty of any planet's influence -- she's still carrying Mercury's virtue from that very recent trine. but, she has no one to convey that virtue to and that indicates no activity or development, or at the very least a stalling in the process.
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Last edited by wca on Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Leo-Poet



Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 142

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi WCA:

It is not accurate to say I "can't even afford this." I can, but I would be stretching a bit, which is a concern of mine. I would never have looked at the house to begin with if I couldn't afford it at all. I understand that you're trying to draw out a point you see in the chart--but I feel your wording is overly dramatic and does not reflect the reality of my situation.

I appreciate the time you have taken to look through the chart and my previous posts about it.

Thanks again for your interest, and good luck to you in your future horary studies.


LP
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wca



Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo-Poet wrote:
Hi WCA:

It is not accurate to say I "can't even afford this." I can, but I would be stretching a bit, which is a concern of mine. I would never have looked at the house to begin with if I couldn't afford it at all. I understand that you're trying to draw out a point you see in the chart--but I feel your wording is overly dramatic and does not reflect the reality of my situation.


my apologies, no offense meant. Smile I appreciate the feedback. I did not mean to imply you were unable to make the payments as you said you could. I more meant that, given the state of Saturn and Mars, it appeared this property would become a money out and deplete you of resources. the price of the property certainly seems high, as testified by Jupiter's exalted state in the 10th, but the costs of regular maintenance could more than overwhelm if the payments are already on the higher range. hope that clarifies.
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Becca



Joined: 17 Mar 2014
Posts: 37

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Leo-Poet

As the querent, you are Venus in Taurus in the 8thH. The seller of the house is symbolized by Mars in Libra in 1stH, the house symbolized by Saturn in Scorpio in the 2ndH and the price by the Moon in Pisces in the 5thH.

I think that the person selling the house is someone who would be willing to negotiate with you but that you'll find yourself having to depend on your partner's resources as your own are poor and constraint, while the price of the house is quite high. I would go so far as to say that it is overpriced for its shape. You would have to otherwise go on a budget were you to be able to afford this house yourself without it diminishing your resources.

There is no aspect between your significator, the Moon or that of the buyer's, so I'll have to say No. I don't think that you'll buy this house.
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BlueMoon



Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 45
Location: New York, New York USA

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo-Poet,

Do you know when the house came on the market and you were told about it/saw it? When in June was it?

I'm curious whether Venus' opposition to Saturn represents, timing-wise, your first hearing of the house. The opposition could indicate that immediately after finding the house it went into contract with another buyer.


BM
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