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Should I Buy This Used Car?
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:10 am    Post subject: Should I Buy This Used Car? Reply with quote

I've heard it said that if a guy is so worried about his new girl friend that he has to consult a horary chart, then he already knows the answer.

Having said that, I have a question about a used car.

The data is: August 1, 2017, at 6:58 PM EDT, Falls Church, VA,77 W 10, 38 N 53.



I'm Saturn, retrograde in Sagittarius in the 12th house. The car is the ruler of the 2nd house, Jupiter in Libra in the 9th house. They are applying to a sextile while Saturn is retrograde. A few odd things happen though.

The Sun prohibits them by reaching a sextile with Jupiter first. Then Mars prohibits them by forming a sextile with Jupiter and finally retrograde Saturn stations. While Saturn is motionless, Jupiter applies to a sextile with Saturn.

The used car dealer is the 7th house ruler, the Moon in Sagittarius in the 11th house. My question really was how reliable is the car dealer and how sound is the car. The car as Jupiter has dignity only by term but at least it's not peregrine. Saturn rules Jupiter by exaltation and by face. The Moon is peregrine and is ruled by Jupiter by sign and term. The car dealer may be a bit flighty and apt to change his mind and he definitely has an interest in the car. Still I don't see signs that he's an outright scoundrel as the Moon is in the 11th house. The car as Jupiter can't be looked at as a lemon either.

There are no antiscias and no fixed stars are involved here. I discounted Antares because it's 5° away from the Moon.

What are we left with? The chart would suggest that while both the car and the dealer are not amazingly wonderful, they are also not too bad either. The real message seems to be telling that I won't buy the car no matter what I think of the dealer or the car. The Sun rules the 8th house so perhaps he will be more concerned about his profit on the car and raise the price. Perhaps another buyer will offer him more money first.

I'm somewhat interested in how the sextile between me and the car happens while Saturn is motionless in its station. I've heard that these points when a planet is at its station are fated points on its path. Maybe that doesn't matter so much for something like a car, and either way that aspect was prohibited twice before this happens.

Does anyone else have any thoughts?
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a thought that since this car is not actually my possession right now, that the 2nd house would not be its significator. What would then? The 8th house as the turned 2nd house from the dealer's house?

I don't know.
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 138

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mark,

I think this particular car belongs to 8th and the Sun and Mercury representing the car. Saturn in 12th representing both you and your money.

Sorry, I have to go now . . . PoF
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MarkF



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 523
Location: Outside Washington, DC

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That could be. The car belongs to the dealer right now so yes, the turned 2nd from the 7th. If so then this looks to be a good deal because the Sun is in its sign and will make the next aspect to my 2nd house ruler, Jupiter.
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Tom
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't done a horary in a long time, so this may not be the best, but here goes:

I think the car is second house because you are converting your possession - money - into another - the car. The problem, of course is that Saturn rules both you and the car. Since the condition of the car is the main issue, I'd give Saturn to the car.

Saturn in Sagittarius isn't terribly strong, so I'd judge the car's condition to be weak. Saturn might be telling us the car is old. Being in the 12th house isn't too reassuring either.

The dealer is the Moon and the Moon is in Sagittarius ruled by Jupiter. The dealer loves Jupiter and Pisces is intercepted in the 2nd. The dealer loves your money - not too surprising. If we use Saturn as you, you also love your money. If we use Saturn as the car, the car loves your money. I'd think you might want your car to love something other than your money.

The 4th is the end of the matter. Venus rules Taurus the 4th house ruler, but she is in the 6th house of illness.

Like I said, it's been a long long time since I've even looked at a horary, so take this for what it is worth. But I think you need to keep looking or at least get a good warranty.

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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 138

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark and Tom,

Mark has not yet purchased the car, so the car still belongs to the seller in 8th. Both Mark and Mark's money (Saturn) don't aspect Sun nor Mercury which represents car (at least one of them is for sure). Saturn is in 12th and Saturn is in detriment of 8th house ruled by Leo (and Cancer, the seller). I'm not sure Mark will buy this car but anyway, good luck.
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sabumnim



Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 70
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mark:

In horary charts that I have previously made for car purchases, the 3rd house works well for cars, as they are a 3rd house, utilitarian, "every day" type of object, while the 3rd house also signifies transportation.

Therefore, Mars (ruler) is in the sign of Leo, while Moon (seller) trines Mars.

Moon trine Mars always symbolizes an aggressive person with a "hard ball" serve.

The first house is you, the 7th house is the seller or dealer.

As Saturn signifies the querent, and is found in Sagittarius, in the 12th house, you feel vulnerable about this purchase, or perhaps you feel subject to deception and or you are not being told the straight goods about this vehicle.

With Sun = Mars in Leo, the car has likely got a sporty look to it and the engine is powerful. However, with Mars sesquiquadrate Saturn (135 degrees) the car may need hidden, expensive repairs, such as the brakes, exhaust, tires, and or body work, which might make the asking price a little too high!

Finally, Mars squaring the Part of Fortune is an aspect of unfortunate circumstances, like the sticker price is too high, the seller is too demanding, or others may also be interested in purchasing the vehicle.

Since there is no applying, positive aspect between Mars and Saturn, the sale will likely not go through, I predict.
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Mark has not yet purchased the car, so the car still belongs to the seller in 8th.


Quote:
the 3rd house works well for cars, as they are a 3rd house, utilitarian, "every day" type of object, while the 3rd house also signifies transportation.


And this is why I don't do horary any longer. There are too many ways to look at things. True, the car belongs to the seller, but Mark is exchanging one possession for another - a trade. In theory, it's at least neutral and Mark isn't giving up anything. His wealth (second house) will be the same as it was prior to the trade. It's just taking a different form. And the question is "Should I?" Not what will happen "If I .." Therefore the condition of the car is the issue (it's rare anyone would want the car to be in poor condition), so the significator is all important and here we have at least three ways to determine that with three different significators.

"The car is 2nd or 3rd" debate has been around for a while and I can even add one. The car is the first house (the ship I sail in). Third house is what we do with the possession (2nd house) move from place to place (3rd house). Mark is asking whether or not he should purchase the car or exchange his money for something of equal value. He is not asking if he should take a trip. He will do that if he buys a car.

I know there are many who disagree, and that's fine. Feel free to do so. I did what I could.
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Tanit3333



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
Posts: 88

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Car horaries always lead to disagreement on rulerships. If there is disagreement about signification of the car, ask yourself which planet best describes it. What color is it and what is the age? I usually assume cars being purchased are 3rd house but Mercury might also be a natural significator, as cars are a means of transportation.

If Mercury in Virgo, we might think a muted blue or gray and something unassuming looking in general. I would think such a car is economical and practicle. Someone said Saturn, and if so it is in Sag, and would then look quite different - probably very vivid and colorful like a red, purple or royal blue. Although Saturn might add darkness to it and age and maybe ugly. It might have black seats, for example, or a dark interior. Jupiter in Libra would probably be spacious or large and beautiful, like a nice SUV, van or minivan and might be a pastel color.


Deb says if the car is a purchase to look at the 3rd:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/cars.html

I think it is actually Mars, the 3rd house ruler. Aries on the 3rd and Mars in Leo would show a red, yellow or orange car and it would be quite masculine and aggressive in some way, such as a showy sports car. It is peregrine though so not a fantastic purchase and you might do better.

Since the Moon is next applying to square Mercury, it seems to be significant to me but not necessarily the car. Mercury is slow before it slows to a stationary position, which could show a stall with this aspect.

I think Mars combust in the 7th shows someone else loves the car and is in the works to purchase it. The applying square from Moon to the 8th house Mercury could show that the dealer still wants to work with you (such as give a loan) though and might reach out to you for other opportunities. Your significator as Saturn retro in the 12th shows too much uncertainty about the car anyway and it might have lead to anxiety to purchase it. Both the dealer and the car are not fantastic so it seems like a better opportunity might be found elsewhere. Whatever sigs you use, the chart isn't great for a major purchase. I mostly just don't think you will be able to purchase it, whether you want to or not.
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
Posts: 138

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
With Sun = Mars in Leo, the car has likely got a sporty look to it and the engine is powerful. However, with Mars sesquiquadrate Saturn (135 degrees) the car may need hidden, expensive repairs, such as the brakes, exhaust, tires, and or body work, which might make the asking price a little too high!

Finally, Mars squaring the Part of Fortune is an aspect of unfortunate circumstances, like the sticker price is too high, the seller is too demanding, or others may also be interested in purchasing the vehicle.


If this car is represented by Mars, it is combusted -- therefore the car is afflicted and very destructive. Buyers cannot see the negative side of the car because it is hidden (too close to the Sun). Whether this particular car belongs to 8th or 3rd, whether Mark’s money is Saturn or Jupiter, there are no major aspects.
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sabumnim



Joined: 22 May 2017
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Tom:

Good morning from the Canada's west.

It's not really important what style of horary the querent chooses, or what style the astrologer chooses. Or what house is what.

As long as you come up with the correct answer.

I noticed that the querent didn't even include the trans-Saturnian planets (Uranus, Neptune and Pluto) in his posted chart.

So, is that an admission from the traditionalists that those planets don't even exist? Other do this, as well.

That is much more cause for concern than what house represents cars !
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sabumnim



Joined: 22 May 2017
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of Fortune wrote:
Quote:
With Sun = Mars in Leo, the car has likely got a sporty look to it and the engine is powerful. However, with Mars sesquiquadrate Saturn (135 degrees) the car may need hidden, expensive repairs, such as the brakes, exhaust, tires, and or body work, which might make the asking price a little too high!

Finally, Mars squaring the Part of Fortune is an aspect of unfortunate circumstances, like the sticker price is too high, the seller is too demanding, or others may also be interested in purchasing the vehicle.


If this car is represented by Mars, it is combusted -- therefore the car is afflicted and very destructive. Buyers cannot see the negative side of the car because it is hidden (too close to the Sun). Whether this particular car belongs to 8th or 3rd, whether Mark’s money is Saturn or Jupiter, there are no major aspects.


POF:

Agreed. I overlooked that (the combustion between Sun and Mars). But that would be another very good reason not to buy this car, as the buyer is blinded, due to Mars being too close to the Sun.

S.
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Part of Fortune



Joined: 29 May 2017
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,


Mark, I'm curious . . . could you give us some description(s) of the car in question, Thanks!

Quote:
If Mercury in Virgo, we might think a muted blue or gray and something unassuming looking in general. I would think such a car is economical and practicle.

Quote:
Someone said Saturn, and if so it is in Sag, and would then look quite different - probably very vivid and colorful like a red, purple or royal blue. Although Saturn might add darkness to it and age and maybe ugly. It might have black seats, for example, or a dark interior.

Quote:
Jupiter in Libra would probably be spacious or large and beautiful, like a nice SUV, van or minivan and might be a pastel color.

Quote:
Aries on the 3rd and Mars in Leo would show a red, yellow or orange car and it would be quite masculine and aggressive in some way, such as a showy sports car.

Quote:
With Sun = Mars in Leo, the car has likely got a sporty look to it and the engine is powerful.
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Paul
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to engage in any debates, but for buying and selling cars in terms of getting good value for money I would always use the 2nd - in most cases that's exactly what we want. But I wouldn't overlook the third which will probably show you how comfortable and 'happy' you will be with the car for the regular journeys you probably want to take in it. If you're going back and forth from work every day with it, you really do want to make sure the third is at least looking decent. That said, the transaction and the state of the car itself is 2nd house for me.



In this case both yourself and the significator of the car are Saturn right on the 12th house cusp. The Moon will make its first aspect of its sign to Mercury, exalted but by square with no major reception, where Mercury is the natural ruler of transportation. Immediately thereafter it will hit Mars, combust and ruler of the 10th. Mars also rules the third and so I think this combust mars needs to be taken into consideration either way. Ultimately I don't think this car will be suitable for what you want and there could be something hidden in the cost that you don't know about yet - it may seem cheaper than it ought to be and if so that's probably a warning sign. I think if you're really committed to it maybe see if you can get a mechanic friend or something to give it a look over. Ultimately both significators are malefics, one is combust and the other is on the 12th house cusp. It doesn't look too favourable for what you need it for.
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Paul
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Should I Buy This Used Car? Reply with quote

MarkF wrote:

I'm Saturn, retrograde in Sagittarius in the 12th house. The car is the ruler of the 2nd house, Jupiter in Libra in the 9th house.


What house system are you using? Saturn is the ruler of the second, and Mars the ruler of the third. Where are you getting Jupiter?

Quote:
had a thought that since this car is not actually my possession right now, that the 2nd house would not be its significator. What would then? The 8th house as the turned 2nd house from the dealer's house?


That would be true of every single buying horary - it would mean if you bought a TV from me, you wouldn't use the second house either. But I think you should, it's sort of like you imagine a scenario where the transaction is being done and you have what you bought and so the second house is your financial situation now, and then the thing you just bought, and the 8th house is their financial situation now etc.

Tom wrote:

"The car is 2nd or 3rd" debate has been around for a while and I can even add one. The car is the first house (the ship I sail in). Third house is what we do with the possession (2nd house) move from place to place (3rd house). Mark is asking whether or not he should purchase the car or exchange his money for something of equal value. He is not asking if he should take a trip. He will do that if he buys a car.


Here's how I rationalise it.
1st) Will I look good in this car? Will I be safe in this car?
2nd) Is the car worth it? Should I buy it? Is it a good quality car?
3rd) Is it suitable for my journey? Will I like it and be comfortable with it?

Tanit3333 wrote:

Deb says if the car is a purchase to look at the 3rd:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/cars.html


Actually that's Ema Kurent, not Deb.

It's interesting to me that either way the Saturn and Mars play a role here and I think I agree with you that he wont' be able to buy it. I'm curious what that square to Mercury means though. Another car? Another offer? Realisation he doesn't need it?
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