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pregnancy question

 
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saturnian777



Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:20 am    Post subject: pregnancy question Reply with quote

Hi everybody,

Although I've been studying astrology for a while, this is my first real attempt at a horary interpretation. The question is "Will K. (my wife) have a child in the next 24 months."

What prompted the question are 2 miscarriages one in May 2006, another just a few weeks ago. In both cases, the doctors could not find a reason, saying that she was healthy and we just had some crappy luck.

I'm a beginner, so my interpretation will probably miss many, many things that you guys might see. I'm posting it here not only to get your opinion on a difficult issue, but to also to improve my skills as an astrologer, so I will be grateful for any advice, critiques, etc.

Thanks in advance.

I.

So here's the interpretation. Chart was cast

MAY 19, 2008
06:08 PM BADT
Moscow, Russia

At first, the chart appeared to me pretty positive. Libra, which is rising, happens to be both my sun sign and my rising sign. It's ruler, Venus, is strong in Taurus. The 5th house has Pisces on the cusp a fertile sign and its ruler, Jupiter, is sextiled by the Moon and trines Venus. If you turn the chart, the ruler of the 7th house my wife's health, is Mars, and it is strong in Leo and in the 10th. The ruler of the 5th, meanwhile, is Mercury, which is at home in Gemini and making an applying trine to the North Node and Neptune.

When you look further, however, things are far from rosy. The ruler of the 5th Jupiter is cadent and retrograde. The malefics are both strong in the 10th house, and Uranus occupies the 5th. Venus, the Ascendant ruler, is close to the Sun. Most importantly, in my opinion, the Moon really makes no positive aspects for the remainder of its time in Scorpio. It goes on to square Neptune, oppose Venus, oppose the Sun, and finally make an out-of-sign square to Saturn.

Which leads me to conclude that the answer is "PROBABLY NOT."

Any thoughts?
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stanstar



Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 240
Location: Edinburgh Scotland

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Saturnian777 welcome to the forum! Why do you think that Mars is strong in Leo? Or did you mean that it was in an angle? Mars is very weak here I believe. There are no aspects at all between K (your wife) represented by Mars Lord of 7th and Jupiter L5 pregnancy. Jupiter is also very weak too in its fall in Capricorn. Neither are there any reception between those planets. The Moon is also very weak in its fall in Scorpio. It doesn't look likely she will be pregnant within 24 months. But hey there! There's plenty of time in the near future Smile pal!


Stan
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 800

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

I'm very sorry to say that I would agree the answer is probably 'no', certainly not within the time frame you have limited the question to. Lilly says: (CA 224):

Quote:
Consider if the Lord of the ascendant, the Moon, and the Lord of the fifth be not joined to a Planet more ponderous than themselves; for he collecting both their lights, shall be the receiver of their disposition, and shall signify whether the Child or Children (if any be) shall live or not; if he be not impeded the Children then shall live, but if he be retrograde, Combust, Peregrine, or otherwise unfortunate, neither will the Children live long...


All of the aspects we'd like to see, viz: the joining of Jupiter and Venus and the Moon, are in the past; the Moon applies to oppose the Sun, and Venus is combust. The fact that Jupiter is retrograde and detrimented speaks of something that 'reoccurs', e.g. the miscarriages.

That doesn't mean, however, that your wife won't have a viable pregnancy *after* that time frame, however. It's always a possibility, I suppose; it's just how you asked the question that gets this answer, I think.

Cheers,
GH Smile
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Saturnian777

I would like to add few remarks here.
First, I don't think that JU as a ruler of the radical 5th has anything to do with your wife's future pregnancy - for that, we should look to the turned 5th, with virgo on its cusp. First testimony of possible problems - virgo is a barren sign.

Its ruler, ME, although in Gemini essentially strong, is nevertheless cadent and very slow in motion, is actually about to turn retrograde, which is an impediment. Furthermore, Gemini is another barren sign - not good in pregnancy matters.

MA is a ruler of the 7th, the wife. It is in leo, the third barren sign and its angular position doesn't really help here. Above all, we would like to se an applying aspect betwen the two planets, ME and MA, because your wife is the subject of this question(her pregnancy).

Additionally, MA is in antiscion with VE, and VE rules the turned 6th(health problems, diseases) and the radical 8th, both malefic houses. MO is in opposition with SO, and this is a very strong impediment - J. Frawley mentions it, saying that it is only slightly weaker than combustion. SO doesn't receive MO, hence its destructive influence cannot be mitigated.

MO is also in applying contraantiscion with MA, thus transfering the light between VE(ruler of the turned 6th) and MA, ruler of the wife, albeit in a hidden manner(the nature of antiscion). As you've already explained, the doctors cannot discover the cause of the problem.
The same is also signified by the already mentioned antiscion MA/VE.

After the opposition with SO, MO runs into square aspect with SA, without reception, another bad sign.


So in the end, I also think that within the time frame of 24 months your wife will not get pregnant.
But remember that all of us can err and everything is only in God's hands. Smile Thumbs up
Best wishes, Goran
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J K Sharma



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 45

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Pregnancy Reply with quote

Dear friend,

As per details given by you regarding your Query, I think your wife may get pregnant with 24 months (may be between May 08 to Oct 08 ) , but it is slightly doubtfull to refuse abortion.
As per Vedic astrology, I think for both of you, there are some planetry weakness like Asc. lord - Venus is Combust also the 7th house lord (spouse) - mars is debleited and also under malefic effects of Rahu & Ketu. Presence of Sun in 8th house also indicate for abortion.
I suggest to try for issues after 12th july 08. You may be successfull.
Weakness of Venus and Mars indicate for low quality about fertility, i.e. semen and Ovum. I suggest, to check for quality of semen and egg!
Also presence of Saturn (losrd of 5th house) in 11th house indicate about the need of some kind of medical help or treatment.

Best Wishes for you!

J K Sharma
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saturnian777



Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess I'm glad that my interpretation was correct. Of course, I wish things looked a bit different, and we were all wrong. We'll hope for the best and see what happens.

Thanks for all the help!

I.
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saturnian777



Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah -- as to how I asked the question:

I limited it to 24 months because -- well -- it would have been too much of a bummer if the answer was "Never." Not ready to deal with something like that, and hope that I won't have to.
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

I think in this case the question is flawed - A judgement holds for 2 years, on one horary chart? I don't think so. Horary is valid for 2 months, maybe 3 or 4 - but 2 years?!

Certainly this chart and its less-than-rosy nature holds for the time being, but since there has been a recent loss, this is unsurprising. I suggest you look at both of your birth charts. See if you can find testimony in upcoming transits, progressions etc, to L5 and the 5th. Or maybe just ask again in a few months when things have moved on.

Keren
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saturnian777



Joined: 25 May 2008
Posts: 11

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Keren,

Thanks for the comment.

I must say, however, that I'm a bit confused. I've seen charts judged on this site that had a one year time frame -- one example is the "Will My Parents Be Okay This Year" chart in one of the tutorials. I do know that "Will I ever..." questions generally do not produce very readable charts, but I always thought you were fine limiting it to some kind of definite period.

Quote:
I think in this case the question is flawed - A judgement holds for 2 years, on one horary chart? I don't think so. Horary is valid for 2 months, maybe 3 or 4 - but 2 years?!


Is the 2-3 month thing something you have observed in your practice, or is there a source that comments on time frames? It really is a very interesting issue, and one that I've been wondering about for a while.

I.

[/quote]
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerenhappuch wrote:
Hi all,

I think in this case the question is flawed - A judgement holds for 2 years, on one horary chart? I don't think so. Horary is valid for 2 months, maybe 3 or 4 - but 2 years?!

Certainly this chart and its less-than-rosy nature holds for the time being, but since there has been a recent loss, this is unsurprising. I suggest you look at both of your birth charts. See if you can find testimony in upcoming transits, progressions etc, to L5 and the 5th. Or maybe just ask again in a few months when things have moved on.

Keren


Well, this precise time frame of 2-4 months at the most for validity of a horary chart is certainly a modern interpretation and one of its "infallible" rules. Shocked

In CA(at the very beginning of the second book) Lilly reads a horary chart for a gentleman, and the interpretation covers years to come; here on the site there are also other examples given, for example for prince Rupert (whether he shall gain honors in the war, be captured, etc.) then, whether Presbitery shall stand...all instances where it becomes clear that horary chart can cover longer periods of time, years, even decades.

And most importantly, it can and it does give us precise and true information about the future,exactly proportionate to the limits of the time frame that we have imposed upon it, consciously or unconsciously.
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stanstar



Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 240
Location: Edinburgh Scotland

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think/feel that with certain questions we are obliged to put a definite time frame around the question. For example if someone asks "Will I fall in love?" the answer may be yes but it could mean they fall in love at aged 74. That's not much help. So a twenty something querant is really wanting to know if it is going to be quite soon. So I will say there HAS to be a time frame around the Q.

Stan
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 396
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stanstar, yes it does help to be clear about the timeframe. But there is just no way a single horary is going to predict "true love" in 50 years' time. Usually the timeframe is implicit in the question, and if not, it's our job as the astrologer to ask the querent what it may be! From a 20-odd querent, the timeframe for "When will I find love" might be a week, or 6 months... And of course, the chart could well say "Not yet"...

Cor scorpii, Ok, so your understanding is different from mine. Fair enough! I was just adding my experience to the debate. I'm not using a source, this is what I have learned from my own experience.

The point I was trying to make was to look at the astrological tools we have (horary, natal) and point out that in this case perhaps horary is not the most appropriate tool to use, given the question and the timeframe and the fact that saturnian777 probably has access to both natal charts and probably has the time and understanding to give it a go. That's all!

If there is to be a pregnancy soon, it will show in the horary. If not, then it will not happen soon. But 2 years is a long time and I'd hate to think that you would just sit it out and not try to uncover the reasons this might be so, or explore things like a diet change, just because you did one horary chart that didn't look promising.

Best wishes,

Keren
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