skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Part of Fortune in the 12th House

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
juliana_angelova



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Bulgaria

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:14 pm    Post subject: Part of Fortune in the 12th House Reply with quote

Hi there,

I have a simple question about the Part of Fortune in the 12th house. I searched the forum for a previous thread dealing with it but I found nothing, so I started this thread.

I have the POF in my natal chart, in the sign of Gemini. The sign itself is intercepted. Taurus and Cancer hold the cusps.

I want to know if that is a fortunate or unfortunate placement to have. I have the feeling that modern astrology glosses over many traditional interpretations trying to sound upbeat. The 12th is known as "a wholly unfortunate house" and yet most explanations insist on "spiritual development", "altruism", "cosmic consciousness" etc.

Can anybody provide a more sincere insight into this subject? Two years ago I was diagnosed with cancer and have been told that I have recuperated. I turned to astrology to see my natal promise but I cannot figure out this particular placement. If I could upload my natal chart here, I would have done that but there is no possibility to do it on this site.

Best regards,
Yuliana
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4966
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Juliana,

Clearly having the the POF in the 12th house is not a 'fortunate' placement. However, I wouldn't want to overemphasize the placement of the POF on its own in a natal analysis myself. Sources such as Ptolemy did give primary importance to the POF in assessing wealth. However, they did so by also looking at its dispositor planet, and if this aspected the POF. Aspects to the POF from other planets would also be considered.

All traditional sources agree that the dispositor planet of the POF is of great importance. You therefore need look at that planet's condition in terms of the 5 essential dignities by sign and its accidental dignity (house placement, aspects, freedom from combustion, sect , fixed stars etc). I have the POF myself in the 12th house in Pisces using Placidus (based on the 5 degree rule). However, its ruler is Jupiter which has some essential dignity, angular and trining the MC and Venus (a benefic). My experience reflects this quite well in that I have never been wealthy or had a lot of money but I have never suffered real financial hardship either. Of course what is enough is as much psychological as material.

The other approach to to assess wealth is to look at the second house. Later traditional astrologers such as Lilly gave more focus to the second house and its rulers than the POF. First priority is given to the house ruler, then any intercepted ruler , then the POF and its dispositor, then Jupiter the general significator of wealth and finally any planets in the second house. However, a medieval astrologer would give more weight to planets actually in the house. I can see this later approach reflected for me too in my mixed fortunes as my 2nd house ruler is peregrine (Mercury) but on the other hand is angular on the MC, conjunct Venus and trine Jupiter.

Rather than reach any downbeat judgement on one factor in the chart it really needs to be assesed as a whole.

Anyway, this has all been set out much more clearly and thoroughly by the ever brilliant Deb Houlding. Take a look at this excellent article which should answer most of your questions.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealthaphorisms.html

There is no denying the 12th house has negative associations in traditional astrology:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h12.html

However, we are only discussing the POF rather than the luminaries or personal planets which would be much more difficult. Even then though we need to consider the condition of dispositors of such planets and the aspects they receive as this can considerably mitigate or reinforce a 12th house placement.

If your question is more about health that is obviously a very different issue. I wouldn't be looking at the POF to give much insight in that respect.

In regards, uploading charts I have seen the moderators assist people before but I know Deb herself is off to UAC so they are maybe a bit thin on the ground right now.

In the meantime, you could post up your data (if you are comfortable doing that here). I am sure there are lots of excellent astrologers out there who would be happy to share feedback with you.

Regards

Mark
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
yuzuru



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 1392

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, there are a few interpretations that I know of to pars fortuna in 12th

1 - oh, better luck in next life !
:-) - just kidding

2 - money from hidden matters, big animals, etc (see Al-Khayyat)

3 - Fortuna is cadent and weak so we can use pars spirit as a substitute.
_________________
Meu blog de astrologia (em portugues) http://yuzuru.wordpress.com
My blog of astrology (in english) http://episthemologie.wordpress.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
RegulusAstrology



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 147
Location: USA

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: POF in 12th Reply with quote

Frida Kahlo

POF/Cancer/12th ruled by Moon/Taurus/10th

Makes career for herself by painting after her hospitalization from her painful accident in 1925.

Betty Ford

POF/Leo/12th ruled by Sun/Aries/8th

Started Betty Ford clinic for alcoholics and drug addicts seeking recovery. Note sign is Leo. Many clients were celebrities. Think that Sun in 8th shows funding of clinic by donations of other people's money (2nd from 7th)


For Kahlo's chart - I used Astrodatabank to look it up after seeing her show in Philly last weekend. Sorry can't pull up Astrodatabank just now because it makes my machine crash.
For Betty Ford chart - see my book A Rectification Manual
_________________
Dr. H.
World Class Research in Medieval Predictive Astrology
www.regulus-astrology.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
juliana_angelova



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Bulgaria

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for taking the time to post your replies to my question. I will check all the links you gave me. Anyway, it seems that a 12th-house POF has to be worked on by the native to alleviate the effects of this placement.

I am still open to more insights, though the above are a good starting point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juliana_angelova



Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Bulgaria

Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems I missed MarkC's advice to post my birth data for some good astrologers out there, who might become interested in it. Here it is:

Date of birth: 6 January 1970
Time of birth: 16:15
Place of birth: Sofia, Bulgaria

By the way, I checked the dispositor of my POF and the answer wasn't any better - Mercury in the 8th house. Another house of ill repute. The only thing I can identify myself with in respect of the 8th is my interest in matters like astrology. The rest remains a mystery.

I would be happy to receive feedback even though it might be on the negative side. (To be honest, I do not buy the "personal transformation" and "spiritual development" things very much.)

Thank you in advance.

Yuliana
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SunPluto



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the part of fortune in the the 12 house and I'm real lucky with money. I always win it or find it. Today I went to the bank and picked up $26,000 that was left to me 3 years ago that I didn't know about !


Not sure how I', lucky with money but I always have been....even as a 2 year old a person that is not related to me gave me $2000 because they thought I was cute !!
_________________
Remember that everything we have somebody before us shed blood,sweat and tears so we could have a better life !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SunPluto



Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 68
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the part of fortune in the the 12 house and I'm real lucky with money. I always win it or find it. Today I went to the bank and picked up $26,000 that was left to me 3 years ago that I didn't know about !


Not sure how I', lucky with money but I always have been....even as a 2 year old a person that is not related to me gave me $2000 because they thought I was cute !!
_________________
Remember that everything we have somebody before us shed blood,sweat and tears so we could have a better life !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Nativities & General Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated