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Hellenistic Astrology 2: Primary Chart Rulers
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 3949
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see that Valens himself deals specifically with the natal scenario I outlined above!

Let these controlling points be considered as proven by us. The first control: the sun in Leo, the moon in Cancer; the luminary in appropriate configuration with the Ascendant or MC will have the control, and the ruler of its term will be houseruler. If both are in the terms of the same star, that star will unquestionably be judged the houseruler.

The second control: if the sun is in the Ascendant, the moon in the XII Place of the Bad Daimon, the sun will have control. The Anthology, Vettius Valens Book III, chapter 1

If a person gave your body to any stranger he met on his way, you would certainly be angry. And do you feel no shame in handing over your own mind to be confused and mystified by anyone who happens to verbally attack you?’

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Marius Cojoc

Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 40
Location: Tîrgu Mures, Ro

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings to all,

Domicile lord acts as a host by providing for the needs of his guest. The guest will recive, what domicile lord is providing, trough the bound lord in wich the guest reside. It's like domicile lord provide an agenda for the native's life (Epikratetor) that will be accepted, modify, impeded or rejected by the bound lord. The complex ideea is that the bound lord, affect the outcome of a given issue by changing the time and space for that issue according to it's nature (check out circumambulation trough bounds). If I'm right, than the bound don't provide but set the policy, set the agenda, the schedule for the things that may come in native's life. When the guest testify to the bound lord is like the guest is well informed about his resources and he adopt a stance toward them. If the guest don't testify to the bound lord is like the guest knows about he's resources but don't know how and when he could get them.

Maybe there is a confusion or a misleading and both „oversight” and „set de agenda for the native” should pe asume by sunoikodespotes. Then, indeed, sunoikodespotes may be the bound lord of the Epikratetor.

Yes, Mark, Vettius Valens has many examples and sincerily he is my argument nomber 1 in my statement. For the moment I don't have time at disposal to point the specific chapters but I will. Anyway, according to egyptian bounds, your client has Sun in Mars bound.
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Marius Cojoc

Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 40
Location: Tîrgu Mures, Ro

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vettius Valens - Anthology, PH edition

"But the Moon, Ares, and Aphrodite rejoice when they are above the earth at night, and below the earth during the day. Hermes goes with the sects of the ruler in whose bounds it lies".

'And if the ruler should chance to be unwitnessed in relation to the predominator, but should otherwise be found to be well figured (for example, if it should mark the hour or culminate [while being] oriental), it imparts its complete years. But when [it is not] upon the pivot points, if it allows the reduction of the interval to remain in arrears due to a determination [of the presence] of communion, it will impart the remaining years."

"It is always necessary, then, to reckon the quantity of years from the predominator and to compare with the years of the ruler. And however many should be found, [the native] will live for just so many years. If the years of the ruler should be fewer than those of the apheta, the native will live for those of the ruler. For, the ruler does the imparting if the nativity should indeed happen to be one that has a ruler, with the pivotal intervals being left in arrears. But if the years of the apheta should happen to be fewer than those of the ruler, he will live for those of the apheta, and [the nativity] will be judged one without a ruler. And if the predomination should happen properly, [the apheta] and the ruler will each impart its own years"

I find those paragraphs very exciting. From the first paragraph we can delineate that Mercury will follow his bound lord agenda. This is an important issue that show what Vettius Valenes think. Robert Schimdt on the Act Astrology forum stated that "At the zodiacal level, which we are dealing with here, it is far more important to take into account whether a planet is in the domicile or confines of a sect-mate for the nature of the delineation itself, than it is to consider its general sect status in the chart". It seems to me that the bound lord has much more weight that we may think.

The second paragraph suggest what may happen if the Epikratetor don't have a relation with his bound lord. If the bound lord is fit to conduct daily business for the native, it will give its complete years if isn't, it will not. This brings in discussion the issue of houses. Cadent houses are not weak in the sens of strengthnes but they are week in pursuit the priorities in someone's life like pivotal places do (health, home, marriage, profession etc )

The third paragraph is very interesting but the text is ambiguous. Anyway, I think that reflect my theory. In the first case, if the native's Epikratetor gives more years than the bound lord, the native will live those of the bound lord. So, the bound lord will modify what Epikratetor is giving by limiting his years (limiting native's existence).

In the second case, if the native's Epikratetor gives fewer years than thouse of the bound lord, the native will live those of the Epikratetor and very important , the native it will be judge without a ruler. So, the bound lord can't add something extra. The basic function of the bound lord is to limit the space and time for a given issue. It's posibly that in this particular case, the bound lord lost his power to act beacuse ther isn't nothing to limit. I don't konw, I have so many questions ...
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