Hello

I have no actual election in mind but J Frawley's article in his site made me stop and think....

Suppose somebody asks us to elect a time to start a business, and we don't look at the birthchart. Reasonably enough, we decide that it's a good idea to put nasty Saturn safely out of the way. Of course, we would like to get Saturn out of the sky altogether and send it off somewhere else, but that's not really an option. So we stick it in the 12th house of the elected chart, and think how clever we are. But if we had looked at the birthchart, we would know that Saturn rules that person's 10th house. Sticking the ruler of his 10th house in the 12th house in our election for his business is the worst thing we could have done. We must, must, must work with the nativity.

(www.johnfrawley.com/Election.html)

Saturn actually rules the MC in my chart and my personal feeling is that I'd still be happy to stick him in the 12th where he can't do any mischief and would hesitate to place him in an angular house.

What if someone's 7th is ruled by the Greater Malefic, would it be a good idea to put him in an angle in a marriage chart? It'd get more complicated because there're two parties concerned in a marriage chart; incorporating two charts would be an impossible task.

I have no traditional sources on the subject and would love to know if this is the standard traditional approach. Is electing without considering the nativity a modern invention?

YES, it is a modern invention, and a poor one !
If you see the sport and speculation forum, you will see that judging from event charts is a lot different than judging from a horary one.
You can?t simply do an election in the vaccum.

Zahel said:

All the wise men are in agreement that elections are weak unless they are made for kings, for, even though their elections are weak, these have radixes, i.e. their nativities, that strengthen every planet that is weak in the way; but for those of low or moderate degree and for those that follow, you shall not elect anything unless [it is based] upon their nativities and upon the revolutions of their years and upon the nativities of their children.

Meaning: you only do elections when you have an natal chart, or in the absense of that, use an horary chart as basis to your election.

Zahel continues:

Beware, therefore, to elect for him, for whom the radix of his nativity or the horary question sig?nifies anything horrible, because when it has happened that you have put all the fortunes in angles, and you have made all the evil planets to be cadent, [still] nothing will profit him, (...)because you do not know whether you should elect the ASC or a star that is inimi?cal to him in the radix or is in the same rising sign that you have badly elected for him.

Meaning you can choose the best moment in the world, and you will have saturn sitting in that angle, without you knowing it ! (I have seen elections like that made by so called "traditional astrologers", which of course do not honour this title.)

Zahel concludes:

"For we may be surprised at nothing in [the case of] those who ride upon the sea or those who travel in the same hour, whose intention is upon a trip. But some of them will experience shipwreck, while others will evade it, and some will find their wealth, but others will find nothing, for the essence of some of them is not compared to the essence of others

There are always many things happening. You can elect the time to marry, but you forget that in a saturday of spring, 6pm, there is probably thousands of couples marrying, and probably there is another one just 20 minutes after your marriage. But they will have different results according to each nativity.

But I don?t know if you should put your Saturn angular. This is the particular "know how" of Frawley, and I have not tested it. I do in a different way. But the principle is obviously right.

Excellent post
Helped me to understand the subject better.
Thank you Yuzuru

yeah, and if you put the ruler of your mc in the electional 12th -- well, it sounds like an alderman in the slammer -- implying that the ruler of your 10th probably did a lot of mischief to end up in electional 12th -- twere better for your fortunes to put ruler of natal 10th in electional 6th -- working authority.

Hi SG
Thank you for your input.

No planets in a cadent house will be able to express their 'authority'.
If it's an election for starting business, I wouldn't feel comfortable placing Satrun in the 6th as you suggest because the 6th would signify my workforce/employees.
Would much prefer giving Saturn a minor accidental dignity by sticking him in the 12th, where he rejoices.